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Thread ID: 91055	2008-06-24 21:04:00	Claims	Sweep (90)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
682094	2008-06-25 23:49:00	We do have one country and if you have a claim then you should make your application to the Waitangi Tribunal and get a Wai number like everybody else who has a claim. Of course, you'd have to prove a mandate and fit yourself into a European notion of race and community interest - the way the Waitangi Tribunal works is very biased toward European ideas - so I'm not sure it applies to all citizens regardless of race... Deane F, Take customary rights for example. I am a fifth generation New Zealander or Pakeha. When I was a child I used to walk from Island Bay around to Cape Terawhiti with my Father and we used to spear fish from the rocks for Moki, Butterfish and Crayfish. On our walk (about 14 miles) we did not have to pay a koha or donation. There are some places in New Zealand I can not visit without a koha. Every now and then there can be a tapu put on an area for reasons I respect. I think it is time for heathy debate but usually one can not do this for fear of being accussed of racism or being a bigot. I definitely am talking about debate rather than arguement. I would think you are intelligent enough to know the difference.	Sweep (90)
682095	2008-06-26 00:02:00	The debate would be eternal. As long as money is involved there will never be an end. And indeed, just last Thursday, Ngai Tahu leader Mark Solomon confirmed that a $400 million central North Island settlement would take the total Treaty settlement payout to well over $1 billion, stating, "We'll be invoking our relativity clause if this deal goes ahead. We've been told the current Treaty total payout figure stands above $700 million www.scoop.co.nz	rob_on_guitar (4196)
682096	2008-06-26 00:21:00	There are substantial records of what took place in the negotiations and various signings of the Treaty around the country, as well as oral records. Have a look at Claudia Orange's book The Story of a Treaty. I did comment above about where the money actually ends up - the bulk of it has been invested to provide an income stream for the future benefit of Ngai Tahu members. I believe that most has been invested around the South Island in particular - for example, in land (I commented that Ngai Tahu is now the second biggest land owner here behind the Crown), and businesses such as tourism ventures (e.g. one of the jet boat businesses in Queenstown) etc etc. And of course there is a tie up with SeaLord, but I am not clear about what that is. I am not an expert on their investments or strategies, but if you want to follow this up, have a look at their website. You could start here: www.ngaitahu.iwi.nz I don't think this whole thing is dividing the country. Both major political parties have been following the strategy of sorting out the past injustices against iwi for many years - National has in fact been more committed and more effective than Labour in this regard. The Tories may be a bunch of miserable plonkers, but Doug Graham was the key politician sorting this out. He basically said that Kiwis are not comfortable with injustice and want it sorted out. It is only people who don't take the time to educate themselves about what the injustices were who feel aggrieved. And we do have laws that apply equally to all citizens regardless of race (thought they are not always policed fairly). The Treaty of Waitangi Act that set up the claims process was legitimately passed through Parliament, the same as any other legislation. So the Ngaitahu appear to benefit but very few other tribes. http://www.newzealandwars.co.nz/ And I note that on that site Wanganui is spelled Whanganui. I went to Wanganui East primary school at one time and lived in Maketu Street. Wanganui is still Wanganui as opposed to Whanganui. Whakatane is different. Mount Egmont received a name change as well and if you think I am going to henceforth call it Mount Taranaki you are entirely wrong. I think that Sealord has had financial problems and was sacking some staff. You may as well keep the politics out of the debate. I have not heard what National stands for in the way of policy. I did hear that they want to abolish the Maori seats at one time. Your comments are invited.	Sweep (90)
682097	2008-06-26 00:39:00	Whanganui is correct. But it's said Wanganui in the local Maori dialect, as they don't say wh as f. And is spelled as such. Otago is also said Otako, although I don't expect to see that change any time soon. I used to live in Hataitai, which is Whataitai, the Taniwha that makes up Mount Victoria. Although written language was introduced after they were named, so in a way you can spell them however you want.	Thebananamonkey (7741)
682098	2008-06-26 00:47:00	Whanganui is correct. But it's said Wanganui in the local Maori dialect, as they don't say wh as f. And is spelled as such. The point is its said and spelled Wanganui by the LOCALS, all the locals. The fact that a small handful of dissenters insist otherwise means nothing, Unless of course you add extra weight due to the colour of their skin, which just makes you a racist. I can find a handful that think we should all pack up and leave,NOW. I'll follow you sympathiser's to the boat.	Metla (12)
682099	2008-06-26 00:47:00	Is it being made explicit in these settlements that each settlement made is 'full and final'?? If not, Rob is right, this bull**** is going to go on forever....	johcar (6283)
682100	2008-06-26 00:52:00	I was under the impression that each settlement was open ended, and had a top-up clause written into them. Either way, The next generation will no doubt put in another claim. They will be taught the ways......	Metla (12)
682101	2008-06-26 00:57:00	Deane F, Take customary rights for example. I am a fifth generation New Zealander or Pakeha. When I was a child I used to walk from Island Bay around to Cape Terawhiti with my Father and we used to spear fish from the rocks for Moki, Butterfish and Crayfish. On our walk (about 14 miles) we did not have to pay a koha or donation. There are some places in New Zealand I can not visit without a koha. Every now and then there can be a tapu put on an area for reasons I respect. It becomes a question of primacy of title. For instance, under the Torrens system you might have title to a piece of land. However, should oil deposits be discovered underneath your bit - well, you'll be pretty much screwed if the govt wants it. You'll get compensated, sure, but you never actually owned the land as such - you had title to it and every system of title has limits and qualifications. So customary use is a form of title - but it has its limits and qualifications. It ought to be mentioned in this debate that once freehold title to land passes from the Crown into private hands it is pretty much untouchable as far as Treaty claims are concerned.	Deane F (8204)
682102	2008-06-26 00:58:00	The point is its said and spelled Wanganui by the LOCALS, all the locals. The fact that a small handful of dissenters insist otherwise means nothing, Unless of course you add extra weight due to the colour of their skin, which just makes you a racist. I can find a handful that think we should all pack up and leave,NOW. I'll follow you sympathiser's to the boat. You mean the ones that have been there 500 years? Or the ones that have been there 50?	Thebananamonkey (7741)
682103	2008-06-26 01:01:00	The ones that are alive.Irrespective of skin colour. Should we wake the dead? Should we all revert names back to whatever they were called 500 years ago?,1000 years ago? Come on, Stick that brain in gear. Besides, They also called it Wanganui, and had no written language,.........	Metla (12)
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