Forum Home
Press F1
Thread ID: 103949	2009-10-11 22:00:00	Any OpenOffice.org Users out there?	Yorick (8120)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
819508	2009-10-13 23:36:00	All I ever ask is that people give it a reasonable chance, I've gone 10 years now without MSO despite polytech tutors trying to get me to do otherwise (Not all, I might add, there are backrooms at Waiariki where you can jump onto Linux machines). I doubt they noticed that all my assignments were done in OOo. :) Any person can try and see what works for them. If it does not work then it is back to plan A possibly. But you wanted a survey in your first post did you not? The PressF1 community consists of a number of members and I note that only a few have been interested enough to reply. For the record I have tried different operating systems and applications.	Sweep (90)
819509	2009-10-14 02:43:00	Any person can try and see what works for them. Usually it's not what works for them but what works for others close to them. You mentioned support earlier on and one area of support we find hardest to crack is the circle of friends support. There is a group local to me that has one guy who could be considered a windows guru, he helps people out, hands around hacked copies of MSO and XP and such like and provides easily accessible support for newbies. That particular circle we can't crack because nobody needs special tools/contacts/skills to download and install OOo, we make it as easy as possible. The problem to the Local Guru of course is that his/her special skills aren't actuallly needed and so we get the "Expensive is better" even if we have to use pirated copies to be able to afford it. If it does not work then it is back to plan A possibly. True indeed, what we'd like obviously is for OOo to be Plan A. In new schools now this is becoming more common, the first office suite kids are using is OOo. Albany Senior High school and Mission Heights are good examples of this But you wanted a survey in your first post did you not? The PressF1 community consists of a number of members and I note that only a few have been interested enough to reply. Indeed, I didn't expect much else, if I went to NZOSS mailing list and made the same request I'd get close to a 100% affirmative response. PC World, other than Geoff Palmer and on occasion Juha Saarinen is pretty much a MS only shop and that's going to reflect in the responses because the readership tends to have a Microsoft bent. Then there's the rest of us who skim the geek toys and straight to the Tux Love section! ;) For the record I have tried different operating systems and applications. Heh I have a box of OpenSuSE 11.1 DVDs that will run Gnome or KDE live, left over from Software Freedom Day, if you feel in the mood for another play. I'll leave some at the front desk in Grayburn House if you want.	Yorick (8120)
819510	2009-10-14 03:47:00	I run whichever is available at the time, at the moment my main machine is on MS 03 as it came free with this computer, next week I will be moving to Win 7 and have just received the Student deal for MS 07 office, however I also have a couple of spare machines that we all use from time to time for whatever reason and they run OO, so far neither SWMBO or step son have complained about using OO when they hop on the spares, so when the time comes to rebuild their machines that is what will be installed as MS office is just too expensive to buy retail. It simply will come down to cost and not other reason	gary67 (56)
819511	2009-10-14 05:06:00	I use OOo exclusively on my own machines, and MSO 2003 or 2007 on machines at work (mainly because it's preinstalled, and I can't be bothered installing another office suite on every PC I use - I'd rather get real work done). My machines are all Linux, with one dual-booting Windows 7. Windows is there only for FL Studio and for syncing my iPod, and rarely gets used more than once or twice a month. The PCs at work are all Windows XP, although we will be migrating to Windows 7 shortly. Thoughts on OOo: One of my most-loved features of OOo (and most hated about MSO because they don't have it) is native PDF export. A very close second is styles support - MSO 2003 is useless at this, OOo is great at it. I heard a rumour somewhere that you guys were planning to adopt a similar UI style to MSO 2007 - please for the love of god don't do that. I can't stand it! Better support for MSO2007 OOXML documents would be great - currently around 50% of the documents I receive in that format have formatting problems when opened in OOo. Most of these are text documents, and all have either been created in MSO 2007, or created in MSO 2003 and then edited in 2007. If anyone is interested in adding LaTeX support, I would love this, especially if it's compatible with LyX files. Along similar lines, a WYSIWYM editing mode (rather than WYSIWYG) would be great. It should be optional, as I suspect it would confuse a lot of users, but I personally find this editing style vastly preferable. OOo is an utter b**** to compile on Gentoo - so much so that there are actually binary packages in the main portage tree. Almost no other package is painful enough to require this treatment. I'd be far happier if your office suite would compile without issues on what could be considered a 'normal' toolchain. Out of curiosity, how do you count Linux download stats? I was surprised to see that Linux downloads even registered on those graphs, as almost all Linux users would get it via their distro's own repositories. Finally, thanks for a great office suite!	Erayd (23)
819512	2009-10-14 05:44:00	I run whichever is available at the time, at the moment my main machine is on MS 03 as it came free with this computer, next week I will be moving to Win 7 and have just received the Student deal for MS 07 office, The student deal thing is interesting . It's a really good marketing ploy, AKA a loss leader . The idea is to lock people into an application so that it becomes too difficult to change and then pick up the loss later on when the victim has to pay full price . (Evidence Sweep's comments above) Not that it's a true loss leader of course, if they sold it for ten dollars MS would probably still be making money . This has been recognised in Europe where governments have found themelves at the mercy of a single vendor, so now tenders are created so that the vendor has to cost in an exit strategy . In other words if the client decides to go to another supplier and software, the original tenderer is liable for the cost of migrating all legacy documents . This is one of the reasons that Office 14 will support ODF . MS uses other similar strategies . A local organisation was gifted $28,000 worth of MS software by MS . It was basically upgrades from XP home to Pro and a number of MSO licenses . This it seems was about $1000 per machine . They were doing training for low income and unemployed people as part of an MSD programme . I pointed out that in terms of actual value to the organisation they would have been better to go with OOo, because then they would have been able to sell cds to their clients . Can't do that with MSO . . . well not legally anyway . So they would have had all the necessary software for the same as what they paid for the MS offering, and they would have had something to sell at the end of it as well . And then on top of that future upgrades would be free and you'd be able to sell more and the clients get modern up to date software at little more than the cost of the media . Pretty obvious value proposition to me . however I also have a couple of spare machines that we all use from time to time for whatever reason and they run OO, so far neither SWMBO or step son have complained about using OO when they hop on the spares, so when the time comes to rebuild their machines that is what will be installed as MS office is just too expensive to buy retail . It simply will come down to cost and not other reason But if cost were the only factor then you'd use notepad . What you're talking about is value . OOo is far better value, not just in the short term but the longterm as well . MS marketing is really good . It's like going to a car yard, there are two new cars identical in most respects . One is at the back of the yard, it's the best performer, it's far more economical, it's paint job is plain and it hasn't been valeted that well . It's got all the high performance fruit but they're all undercover on the plain unchromed mags and a really good chip and the clean flow exhaust and the guy who tells you all about it is a mechanic but only because you asked . The second is out front, it performs OK, it's a fuel hog, but it's got a flash paint job, it's been valeted to the max, the Dealership has told the world about this super special flashy thing . It's up on a stand with lights and Banners . Yea it's a bit unreliable but that's OK we've got lot's of mechanics to fix it, and a salesman with lots of smiles and marketing budget . . The difference is the car out back you can drive away for onroad costs, the one up front has a huge price tag . The question is which one would you take?	Yorick (8120)
819513	2009-10-14 07:29:00	For me the one out back, not always for the reasons you think either. But yes I did buy MS 07 purely because it was cheap and I like to have a mixture of stuff to experiment with I certainly would not have bought it for the full price	gary67 (56)
819514	2009-10-14 10:36:00	I use OOo exclusively on my own machines, and MSO 2003 or 2007 on machines at work (mainly because it's preinstalled, and I can't be bothered installing another office suite on every PC I use - I'd rather get real work done) . My machines are all Linux, with one dual-booting Windows 7 . Windows is there only for FL Studio and for syncing my iPod, and rarely gets used more than once or twice a month . The PCs at work are all Windows XP, although we will be migrating to Windows 7 shortly . Thoughts on OOo: One of my most-loved features of OOo (and most hated about MSO because they don't have it) is native PDF export . Agreed, the PDF form handling is to me the Killer feature . Corporates doing forms that need to go to clients for data input are daft using Word for that . A two page conference registration form for instance, two to three hours in Word doing all the protected fields and so on, literally 10 to fifteen minutes in Writer and export to PDF . A very close second is styles support - MSO 2003 is useless at this, OOo is great at it . One of the big problems with the Word being taught in schools is the result is a generation of users who format on the fly, because of this very thing, the most difficult thing for people to come to terms with in OOo is Stylist I heard a rumour somewhere that you guys were planning to adopt a similar UI style to MSO 2007 - please for the love of god don't do that . I can't stand it! All sorts of ideas get thrown around when you're in the process we are at the moment, it's another of those advantages of OpenSource, everyone get's a hearing which is one of the disadvantages from a marketing guys point of view, nothing is secret . Very hard to have the big splashy reveal of the wonderful new features when it's all been discussed in public in any case . However, that one got shot down fast, it's proved to be a double edge sword for MS, newbies like it, but the powerusers hate it and so corporates have stuck with '97, XP & 2K . Steve Balmer at last years Partners conference I think it was made the point that '97 was the biggest barrier to uptake of '07 . Certainly in my business the vast majority of Migrations I work on are from MSO '97, it was a good piece of gear in it's time, people didn't give it up easily and it's license was not so confusing . Better support for MSO2007 OOXML documents would be great - currently around 50% of the documents I receive in that format have formatting problems when opened in OOo . Most of these are text documents, and all have either been created in MSO 2007, or created in MSO 2003 and then edited in 2007 . May I recommend the Novell version of OOo . Our problem is that MSO '07 does not comply with the OOXML spec published as ECMA 375, even MS has said that it is unlikely that Office 14 will use it as it's native format, but Novell have been doing some excellent interoperability stuff with MS, and that is reflected in their version getting the compatibility stuff earlier than the core . Get that at http://go-oo . org If anyone is interested in adding LaTeX support, I would love this, especially if it's compatible with LyX files . There is a Latex extension called OOoLatex . I haven't used it but it's had 53000 downloads from the Extensions site, so something must be right with it . Along similar lines, a WYSIWYM editing mode (rather than WYSIWYG) would be great . It should be optional, as I suspect it would confuse a lot of users, but I personally find this editing style vastly preferable . I only just got introduced to Lyx myself just recently and I have to say I like it . It's just having your styles visible, I'd say it's unlikely in the main core but as an extension . . . OOo is an utter b**** to compile on Gentoo - so much so that there are actually binary packages in the main portage tree . Almost no other package is painful enough to require this treatment . I'd be far happier if your office suite would compile without issues on what could be considered a 'normal' toolchain . And here I thought that self flagellation was part of the Gentoo creed ;) But seriously jump on the dev@openoffice . org list or on IRC Freenode #openoffice . org and put your oar in Out of curiosity, how do you count Linux download stats? I was surprised to see that Linux downloads even registered on those graphs, as almost all Linux users would get it via their distro's own repositories . True but then when the Ubuntu version screws up (which it does on a reasonably regular basis cos they can't stop them selves from hacking with it), the Ubuntuites come to the users list and we say download and install the real one!:) Also the fact is that the Distro version tend to be a a point version or two behind the core one and some people just like to have the latest and then you have people like me who just has to have the latest bleeding edge developer version just so I can find a really cool bug to post on issuezilla! :D Unfortunately that's a bit like Lotto, someone else always get's there first . But those stats on the Bouncer stats graph don't include the versions shipped with distributions or downloaded from go-oo . org or restricted mirrors like AU . Finally, thanks for a great office suite! Thank the community, 35000 on the maillists, 1200 with CVS access and the corporate partners like Sun, Novell, IBM, Canonical . It's the people and the community that make it what it is no doubt, even those in the Klingon Native language Project . :D	Yorick (8120)
819515	2009-10-14 10:57:00	For me the one out back, not always for the reasons you think either . But yes I did buy MS 07 purely because it was cheap and I like to have a mixture of stuff to experiment with I certainly would not have bought it for the full price Me too, but most people don't, they can't see past the flash and the sell and if it's cheap there's something wrong with it . That's not thinking about it correctly . As I stated earlier, it's about value, not cost . Corporates always talk about value propositions, but rarely in the IT department, mostly they think, "Noone ever got fired for buying Microsoft" :) One of the other things we have to battle is; if a company spends hundreds of thousands of dollars buying MS product, then the guy/department who authorised that purchase is going to go out of their way to make it work because their arse is on the line for that cheque . If however they get OOo into the system, there is not the same pressure to make it work, it's easier to blame the software and toss it out because, after all it was cheap . Recently a nationwide corporate that had OOo all through their system . They upgraded to 3 . 0 . Just after this a new CIO arrived who was a Microsoftie, he chucked out the OOo and wrote out a check for MSO licences . Can you imagine him doing it the other way round, just after upgrade to the latest MSO, he tosses it out and puts in OOo . :eek:	Yorick (8120)
819516	2009-10-14 11:05:00	If you're intending on adopting the ribbon style menu in the next major release, is there an option for that so we can still have the old classic menu?	bob_doe_nz (92)
819517	2009-10-14 12:11:00	If you're intending on adopting the ribbon style menu in the next major release, is there an option for that so we can still have the old classic menu? As I noted to Erayd, although that got suggested, it got shot down pretty fast. My hope is that the standard interface will stay as is with a bit of titivating and then Different UI styles can be had by using an extension, that will cater for differing screen ratios and use patterns. I can say that there will probably be side panes, but it's very early days yet. Impress is the only app the guys have prototyped thus far	Yorick (8120)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17