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Thread ID: 103949	2009-10-11 22:00:00	Any OpenOffice.org Users out there?	Yorick (8120)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
819498	2009-10-13 00:30:00	Well for a start you will not find something in Open Office like the version of MSPublisher you had when I last looked at your PC . If publisher was already installed, installing OOo will not change that . It doesn't affect any programmes already installed and it will happily run alongside any version of MSO . Don't get me wrong here . I have nothing against Open Office per se . For most people it will be more than enough . Quite right and in fact when you say most, think 95% . The only people that I have found in a corporate environment that have to stay with MSO are those Power Users, using a vast library of Excell macros that would be too expensive to convert to OOo Basic, everyone else has no problems at all and in fact get better workflow because OOo's greater functionality . Most difficulties simply occur because things are done a little differently, that's when they get trainers in like me . Very much like MSWorks for example which is cheaper than MSOffice but many people find it suits their needs . Open Office is similar in so far as it suits their needs and has the advantage of being free so it costs less than MSOffice and MSWorks . Don't confuse expensive with being good A disadvantage is that Open Office is not taught in many schools In my opinion, and I'm an Educator, OpenOffice . org should NOT be taught in schools, just like MSO should NOT be taught in schools . What should be taught is Word Processing skills, Electronc spreadsheets, Presentations, Database and so forth . NZQA Unit standards do not specify a particular brand only particular outcomes using Computer software . That means that schools should have any and all applications that will achieve those outcomes . and also while the software has fans you will not get the same support as you would running MSOffice . Support for OOo is very good, just on the end of an email: users@openoffice . org or a forum http://www . oooforum . org or . services . openoffice . org/en/forum/" target="_blank">user . services . openoffice . org Download manuals for free from http://documentation . openoffice . org The difference is the support stays after you've finished at school, it stays free and like the upgrades it's free forever .	Yorick (8120)
819499	2009-10-13 01:28:00	If publisher was already installed, installing OOo will not change that. It doesn't affect any programmes already installed and it will happily run alongside any version of MSO. Quite right and in fact when you say most, think 95%. The only people that I have found in a corporate environment that have to stay with MSO are those Power Users, using a vast library of Excell macros that would be too expensive to convert to OOo Basic, everyone else has no problems at all and in fact get better workflow because OOo's greater functionality. Most difficulties simply occur because things are done a little differently, that's when they get trainers in like me. Don't confuse expensive with being good In my opinion, and I'm an Educator, OpenOffice.org should NOT be taught in schools, just like MSO should NOT be taught in schools. What should be taught is Word Processing skills, Electronc spreadsheets, Presentations, Database and so forth. NZQA Unit standards do not specify a particular brand only particular outcomes using Computer software. That means that schools should have any and all applications that will achieve those outcomes. Support for OOo is very good, just on the end of an email: users@openoffice.org or a forum http://www.oooforum.org or user.services.openoffice.org Download manuals for free from http://documentation.openoffice.org The difference is the support stays after you've finished at school, it stays free and like the upgrades it's free forever. Agreed in principle but my points still remain mostly in my opinion. OK. A software User installs open office and may expect to get a nice new learning curve like "I used to do CNTRL ALT XYZ to insert ABC but I can't do it now and etc. A PressF1 member recently downloaded Open Office after you giving a download link and was PJ confused? Of course he was because he had no clue as to which vesion to download and I for one don't blame him. PJ has now downloaded same and is rummaging so I see. You make the point that is valid that all schools should have various tools at their disposal and I agree to a certain extent but then to qualify as a teacher in IT one would have to know everything about all operating systems and all flavours thereof and all applications and how to achieve what one individual wants and in my opinion you can't teach that. The best outcome in my view is to teach people to question and teach them to research. I did not say expensive is good so please do not put words in my mouth. In fact I did say that open office is in fact more than what most people need. Once upon a time I could keep up with developments as to doing a valve grind on a Morris Minor engine. Unfortunately I don't see too many on the road just now so why, if I was in business, to service same and only those ones I may expect a very seldom drive by customer.	Sweep (90)
819500	2009-10-13 06:36:00	Agreed in principle but my points still remain mostly in my opinion . OK . A software User installs open office and may expect to get a nice new learning curve like "I used to do CNTRL ALT XYZ to insert ABC but I can't do it now and etc . The same applies to any software change/upgrade although most of those sorts of things are the same . However you can customise OOo to suit yourself in any case, but again as you point out that's one of those things on the learning curve . A PressF1 member recently downloaded Open Office after you giving a download link and was PJ confused? Of course he was because he had no clue as to which vesion to download and I for one don't blame him . PJ has now downloaded same and is rummaging so I see . In fact I should have sent him to the OpenOffice . org front page which would have worked out what version he needed and set that download going . But local mirrors are better and with some providers, cheaper in terms of bandwidth . The thing is that PJ is giving it a go and more power to him . If he can overcome the not so steep learning curve then he will always have the latest Office Software package, rather than having to hang on to old out of date software simply because updating to the latest MS offering doesn't fit in the budget . You make the point that is valid that all schools should have various tools at their disposal and I agree to a certain extent but then to qualify as a teacher in IT one would have to know everything about all operating systems and all flavours thereof and all applications and how to achieve what one individual wants and in my opinion you can't teach that . The best outcome in my view is to teach people to question and teach them to research . Amen to that, in student centred teaching environment having all the tools available enables just that . It is not necessary then for an ICT teacher to be skilled at all of them, just know they are available and allow students to experiment . I did not say expensive is good so please do not put words in my mouth . I wasn't, I was merely making the statement to counter any subtext that someone reading this may see there . It is an attitude that the OOo community has to constantly counter . In fact I did say that open office is in fact more than what most people need . Once upon a time I could keep up with developments as to doing a valve grind on a Morris Minor engine . Unfortunately I don't see too many on the road just now so why, if I was in business, to service same and only those ones I may expect a very seldom drive by customer . Another of the problems we have to counter is the reason I started this thread . We in fact have little idea how many people are using it . We do have some statistics from around the world . Market penetration of OpenOffice . org around 20% world wide, we are No . 2 . Survey results vary depending on whose paying for it, go figure . :) Currently higher in the European union 30% + in France 35% in Germany Spain has several Municipalities and states where it is installed on 100% of public service desktops including schools Singapore: 100% on Public Service desktops UK 20% + US and Canada around 5% NZ we have no figures, Gartner doesn't consider us significant enough to survey! :D However any such surveys have to be suspect in terms of numbers for several reasons a) There is no reason that someone already using MSO can't have OOo installed as well . b) MS can track figures because of their licensing system, we can't because anyone can copy it and pass it on to someone else . In fact our research has shown that the average OOo user passes it on 9 times . That's the average of course, some people like Chris McAffey at openoffice . org . nz passes cds on in the hundreds if not thousands and there are many organisations like that around the world . The Indian government distributes Hindi and Tamil NLC versions on CD in lots of 5 million . The only definite figures we have are for downloads from the OOo servers . Right now that numbers between 250,000 and 300,000 a day . openoffice . org/marketing_bouncer . html" target="_blank">marketing . openoffice . org c) OOo's install base outside of Educational institutions is greater than MSO 07 and 03 combined . Our biggest competition (and we share this with MS according to Balmer) is MSO '97 d) When I'm not doing my MarCon job for OOo (which is unpaid appointment) I consult on migration from MSO to OOo and train endusers for corporate and NFP clients, so I know from personal experience there are a lot more users out there than is obvious .	Yorick (8120)
819501	2009-10-13 06:45:00	It's good to have you here Yorick - the info you're giving is very useful . :thumbs: Many thanks, I'd be absolutely rapt if any of my ramblings are at least useful to someone and if I can dispel a few misconceptions at the same time as well as supply a little support to newbies then I'm a happy camper . :banana	Yorick (8120)
819502	2009-10-13 22:12:00	I notice that Renaissance talks about a better UI . . . I'm not saying that's a bad thing but personally I prefer the Office 2003 style you're using in 3 . 1 Please leave it there (even as an option) for people like me! The Renaissance project is great, it's part of the UX (User Experience) project . The UX project is one of the newest projects in OOo (there's 100+ projects including the Native Languages) . Previously the UX was pretty much the sole responsibility of SUN and so the community didn't get a lot of input beyond submitting issues and RFEs (Request for Enhancement) and hope that stuff got done in the backrooms of Hamburg . With the Native Mac port coming out in 3 . 0 however a lot of focus had to go onto the UI because of Mac's strict UIG . Out of that came a little more recognition of UX and we happen to have a few pretty good UX people out in the community and hey presto, we have this really excellent collaboration going on between corporate and community . The advantage is of course, that being an Open Source project you and I can subscribe to the mailing list and put our oar in . One of the critical factors facing any new UI (and this will be 4 . 0 at the earliest) at the moment is the increasing preponderance of 16:9 screens, we've designed around 4:3 now for so long that it's going to be a bt of a challenge to make it work while not scaring the users too much . Vertical sidepanes is something that OOo has used for a while and I have stylist and navigator panes docked on the right of my workspace by default in any case . The guys in china at RedOffice have done some very cool stuff with the interface for theirs, but unfortunately it only works for the CJK language group (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) IBM have added tabbed document interface to Symphony, which is their version of OOo . So there are some interesting hacks going on . Oh and if you think there's no point in sticking your oar in, I can tell you that the entire OOo website design was driven from and most of the code done in NZ, so people do take notice . There may be 35000+ people subscribed to the lists, but people who are reasoned and make sense always standout .	Yorick (8120)
819503	2009-10-13 22:24:00	Quote: Oh and if you think there's no point in sticking your oar in, I can tell you that the entire OOo website design was driven from and most of the code done in NZ, so people do take notice. There may be 35000+ people subscribed to the lists, but people who are reasoned and make sense always standout. :clap	kjaada (253)
819504	2009-10-13 22:44:00	OK Yorick. Your points are well made. Possibly PJ will come back as satisfied user of Open Office and will stay with it or not.	Sweep (90)
819505	2009-10-13 22:58:00	One of the critical factors facing any new UI (and this will be 4 . 0 at the earliest) at the moment is the increasing preponderance of 16:9 screens, we've designed around 4:3 now for so long that it's going to be a bt of a challenge to make it work while not scaring the users too much . That's great but all of my computers (except my laptop) use 17" CRT monitors . I don't like widescreen for browsing the internet and writing documents . In widescreen it's pointless, all you get is acres of blank space down the sides . When I do switch to LCD they will most likely be 17" 5:4 anyway . . .	Agent_24 (57)
819506	2009-10-13 23:18:00	OK Yorick. Your points are well made. Possibly PJ will come back as satisfied user of Open Office and will stay with it or not. All I ever ask is that people give it a reasonable chance, I've gone 10 years now without MSO despite polytech tutors trying to get me to do otherwise (Not all, I might add, there are backrooms at Waiariki where you can jump onto Linux machines). I doubt they noticed that all my assignments were done in OOo. :)	Yorick (8120)
819507	2009-10-13 23:32:00	That's great but all of my computers (except my laptop) use 17" CRT monitors . I don't like widescreen for browsing the internet and writing documents . In widescreen it's pointless, all you get is acres of blank space down the sides . When I do switch to LCD they will most likely be 17" 5:4 anyway . . . I feel your pain, all my classroom machines are 4:3 LCD and that's not uncommon . Widescreens are unlikely to become the default in the Corporate space and that is the challenge to the UX guys . However one of the coolest things about OOo in my opinion is being able to add extensions, I run about a dozen extensions on my OOo for clipart, templates, high powered search, maori lang, NZ dictionaries, and so on . I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to plug in the UI of our choice using extensions . For instance I have a customised version of the OOo UI designed to allow seamless interaction with Adobe InDesign for publishing and advertising companies . It allows reporters and editors to create documents automatically that InDesign can interpret correctly . That could be put up on the extension website along with any number of different UIs designed for specific purposes and functions . It will be interesting	Yorick (8120)
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