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| Thread ID: 94697 | 2008-11-08 09:20:00 | No more Winston | Bantu (52) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 718743 | 2008-11-14 21:18:00 | We are just seeing the results of unregulated, unbridled capitalism in the global financial melt down, and the worst is yet to come. Whether or not the worst is yet to come remains to be seen. That can only be known with hindsight, so in the absence of any evidence this is pure speculation. It wasn't a case of unregulated, unbridled capitalism - it was a case of unbridled fear and greed. If you look into the history of this, there was a lot of deceit by the ratings institutions and the financiers who bundled up the stinking pile of sub-prime mortgages and re-packaged it as something else (a bit like selling a Lada as if it were a Mercedes). I think you'll agree a capitalist society doesn't have a monopoly on misrepresentation and deceit. It was a case of unbridled greed by a certain sector of the economy, who IMO managed to suck in punters who, in some cases, didn't understand what they were buying. The banking system in the US is quite different to that here in NZ. A little history on the current crisis : a sub-prime mortgage is called sub-prime for a reason. Prime sounds good but sub negates that. Money was lent to people who should never have been lent money. You've heard the latest acronym? These were also known as NINJA loans - no income, no job or assets. Would you lend money to someone in that situation to buy a house? I'm guessing no. First up, the borrowers should never have taken the loans, because in a lot of cases they knew they couldn't pay them back. Secondly, banks divorcing the loan application and approval process from those that actually provided the money (i.e. mortgage brokers) meant the banks lost control of the credit approval process. Thirdly, the mortgage brokers were complicit in approving these sub-prime loans. Fourthly, the banks on-sold the sub-prime mortgages based on fear (fear they would not be repaid), and lastly the on-sellers resold them based on greed with assistance from the ratings agencies. The whole house of cards was built on the false premise that property values always rise. Anyone who has been around long enough knows this is not the case on a monthly/annual/whatever basis. As for those who say "we never saw it coming". What a complete and utter load of crap! How can anyone dish out NINJA loans and not expect it to bite them on the bum? It was unrealistic to expect anything else. The only conclusion that I can come to is that you guys, who are supporting an even more right wing monetarist system than we have already got now, are nothing more than zealots who are not swayed by anything, even the complete failure of the financial sector. Interesting to hear you call those with differing ideological views to your own a zealot. I presume you can't see the irony in that? It's not a complete failure. What we are seeing is a blip in one sector, resulting in each party taking a non-trust position of everyone else. It was the lack of liquidity in the wholesale money market (where organisations like banks lend to eachother overnight) which meant every lending institution went into a credit freeze, i.e. no more loans, which tipped over-priced sectors over the edge and bingo we go into a recession. Insofar as NZ regulation / situation is concerned, the NZ treasury has taken steps to ensure we don't suffer from a lack of liquidity in the wholesale market. The NZ banks have very tight criteria regarding capital adequacy ratios, such that we have less to worry about than deposit holders in other banks. We now have a deposit guarantee scheme to ensure there isn't a run on banks. The treasury are also taking steps to ensure there isn't a complete failure in the finance company sector (IMO this will be damaging in the long run but hey I don't set policy). Lastly, we don't have the same problem here in NZ with NINJA loans - so any impact on the NZ economy is not a result of any home-grown problems, they are all imported. The National government have not indicated they are going to change any of the things I outlined above, so on what basis do you make your statements? Insofar as I can see it is purely opinion. Hands up anyone here who put money into a finance company because they weren't happy with the deposit rates at the banks. Not me. A number (not all) of these organisations were built on the same deck of cards (being property values always go up) but others failed because of fear. The deposit holders feared they wouldn't get their money back and by not rolling over their deposits they created a credit squeeze on the finance companies. I'm not saying the deposit holders were to blame; they weren't, but if they don't understand the concept of risk versus reward then they certainly contributed to the problem in a number of ways. NZ needs to educate itself on risk versus reward, failure to do so will see history repeat itself again and again. To me the failure in the American financial sector proves that your ideas are part of a dream world and do not belong in a functioning economy which will last any length of time. NZ is in a different position to the states for the reasons outlined above. So this is a 100% nebulous connection. It is a question of finding the right balance between free markets and regulation. The US was too unregulated, the same cannot be said for NZ. By the way, Russia is now a capitalist system and is even more miserable to live in for the poor majority that it was under communism. A minority of businessmen and their cronies have got very rich and the ordinary people have very bad/poor lives. See previous post. Pick another country. Any interest in taking an overseas sojourn? |
andrew93 (249) | ||
| 718744 | 2008-11-14 23:35:00 | It is you guys that aren't thinking, you just endlessly spout the party line over and over again. It is you that should all go to Russia, it is your right wing idealists idea of a free market economy, but it went wrong like Iraq and is now more like hell. Naive and idealistic with a touch of stupidity seems to be the essential ingredients that go to make up the neo cons and their followers, oh I forgot, an eye for the main chance and an easy buck at the expense of the workers as well. Do me a favour and realize that the fruits of your silly ideas are crumbling all around you even as I type. I award you a big fat FAIL. |
zqwerty (97) | ||
| 718745 | 2008-11-14 23:46:00 | You arent a pom are you are zqwerty? | prefect (6291) | ||
| 718746 | 2008-11-15 01:09:00 | If you are incapable of comprehending what is being said zqwerty, or you fail to appreciate that some of use are actually capable of independent thought, then please spare us all your claptrap. I want my 5 minutes back. What are you going to do about that? | andrew93 (249) | ||
| 718747 | 2008-11-15 01:29:00 | I am the independent thinker you are the followers. | zqwerty (97) | ||
| 718748 | 2008-11-15 01:36:00 | You arent a pom are you are zqwerty? No but I am,so watch yourself lad. |
Cicero (40) | ||
| 718749 | 2008-11-15 02:18:00 | I consider myself told off | prefect (6291) | ||
| 718750 | 2008-11-15 03:27:00 | I am the independent thinker you are the followers. :clap You're a wind-up aren't you? You're all talk, no action. You don't believe what you say do you? If you are so anti-capitalist, why do you continue to live in a capitalist society? I asked you a perfectly reasonable question about a sojourn/whatever in a non-capitalist society, and you don't even acknowledge the question? As if it isn;t even an option? There's the proof. In the meantime, any utterances from yourself on this subject on this forum are to be taken in the context that you are merely a man of words, and not action, and as such should be considered as just 'talk'. A |
andrew93 (249) | ||
| 718751 | 2008-11-15 05:56:00 | I have spent my life repairing faulty equipment for a very reasonable charge and returning them to their owner for a fair price, this is my contribution to the well-being of NZ, what do you do that is of real benefit to the country, and I don't mean giving us comforting words and such like, I mean generating real physical products which people can use. | zqwerty (97) | ||
| 718752 | 2008-11-15 06:44:00 | Fair play to Andrew. He's giving us a heads-up so we can leave the country before the concentration camps are built. Martynz |
martynz (5445) | ||
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