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Thread ID: 94909	2008-11-17 04:15:00	First broken promise by the Tories	John H (8)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
720804	2008-11-17 09:11:00	Another snivelling toadie of the loony right makes a useless post. Typical Cicero post - no substance, no new ideas, always comes in behind someone else with no new point to add. Still, I don't expect anything from someone who squats on what used to be productive land, so I am never disappointed. Try to remember it is the right that produces,is that understood my commie friend?	Cicero (40)
720805	2008-11-17 09:25:00	Good to see that Smiley Smith the grinning leprechaun has been locked out of the cabinet room, and Maurice "the mouth" Williamson has been sidelined as speaker. Those whom the Gods would destroy they first make mad, so that is the end of him, taken right out of the play by a left hook he never saw coming, but thoroughly deserved. I think you got that reversed. Allowing ACT to investigate this and that will tie them up and probably have ACT and the Maori Party fighting amongst themselves.	PaulD (232)
720806	2008-11-17 09:28:00	Try to remember it is the right that produces,is that understood my commie friend? The right represents the workers? There was a famous instance of when a conductor got up on the podium, raised his baton, and... nothing happened. The first violinist leaned forwards and said... "That's how much noise you make". He'd been abusing the orchestra for all of their rehearsals, and they got sick of it. The right own the production, but don't mistake that with them producing.	Thebananamonkey (7741)
720807	2008-11-17 18:34:00	[QUOTE=John H;727575] I could call you a snivelling toadieQUOTE] Thats just a personal insult, leftwing, liberal, and communist are descriptions of political leaning.	prefect (6291)
720808	2008-11-17 19:16:00	The right represents the workers? There was a famous instance of when a conductor got up on the podium, raised his baton, and... nothing happened. The first violinist leaned forwards and said... "That's how much noise you make". He'd been abusing the orchestra for all of their rehearsals, and they got sick of it. The right own the production, but don't mistake that with them producing. Urban myth, and a crap one. Though I can easily demonstrate the real world effect and stay home for the day*, The immediate result will be half the required productivity, Standards would be random at best, safety procedure would default to who gives a ****, petty arguments would break out, people would sulk, crap would be stolen, and everyone would knock off 20 minutes early. No doubt tired from numerous extended breaks. And of course If I can't results then we can't make money, we have toi ask more for doing jobs, which we won't get and then everyone gets fired.YAAAAAAAAAY. Or the cost of running a company in NZ rises to the extent that a small company with 20 employees just isn't worthwhile so the company director cashes up before finally being broken and heads for Aussie, YAAAAAAY....... *except of course for the recession, Meaning we are out of work and I don't have a crew as such any more. Best I look for some work to do.	Metla (12)
720809	2008-11-17 19:58:00	Try to remember it is the right that produces,is that understood my commie friend? Mere assertion, as usual. Where is the substance to the statement?	Deane F (8204)
720810	2008-11-17 20:03:00	Jeez guys, enough with the personal insults.....back on subject ya dickheads...!	SolMiester (139)
720811	2008-11-17 20:41:00	I don't recall them saying that....why dont you tell us why your against this and what you fear the outcome to be...any government has to compromise on policy....Labour got away with that for years. As you said in a later post, back on topic (after a nice sleep and breakfast). First, the topic is how long it took them to break a promise. Sol said: "any government has to compromise on policy" - my concern is how much the Nats will compromise because of its association with a party (ACT) that has no mandate. ACT was voted for by less than 4 people out of 100 across the country - it got fewer votes than NZ First for example. However, in one of the anomalies of a MMP environment, they get 5 seats in Parliament. Humility is not a strong point in ACT or the Nats, and I am really concerned that the fact that ACT has no mandate to introduce its loony ideas will get forgotten - there are enough closet ACT thinking Nat MPs that I think they will get more traction than the electorate intended. Bulk funding is a classic Douglas philosophy, along with education vouchers. It is indicative of trouble ahead that the Nats were prepared to re-visit a key ACT policy, even before the govt was sworn in. Secondly, why am I against bulk funding? You have to remember that management and governance across the secondary education sector is mostly amateur. No doubt some principals and their BoTs have a degree of skill. Many do not. With bulk funding, the government adds another layer of complex management to their already difficult tasks. How many schools have the governance and management expertise to manage this new task? Most principals are trained teachers, not trained managers, and BoTs are an accident of fate at the ballot box - you have no guarantee of the skill mix after an election. When a school gets bulk funded salaries, it has to decide how to apportion those funds across its teaching workforce. There is no incentive for a school to employ skilled, experienced teachers who command the top salaries. There IS an incentive to employ cheap, relatively unskilled teachers because they are less of a drain on the salary bucket. In that group there will no doubt be new graduates who need the experience to become skilled - that is fine. However, a school needs a balance, yet bulk funding provides an incentive to replace the best teachers with the cheapest in the market, and the balance will be lost over a few years as the highest paid teachers move, get promoted, or retire. Finally, you just need to look at the way mental health service providers are funded to see what power bulk funding gives to the government. It will be sold to the public as giving power to the schools to use the funds how they wish. However, it is still the government that decides how big the fund will be for each school - the only power a school will have will be analagous to arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. In mental health for example, the government pays mainland service providers much less than it pays those in the North Island. Apparently this is on some specious argument that mainland service providers can deliver the same service cheaper than their North Island counterparts. This means that the workers down here are paid less than their equivalents employed in the north, even though they do the same job under the same service specs. It is feasible with bulk funding of schools that the government could do the same thing - they have got away with it for years in mental health, why not in schools as well? However, whether they do that or not, they will still set the size of each school's bucket, and you can be sure that this will always lag behind reality, simply because of the unwieldy nature of government budget setting and decision making. So in my view, despite what they will say, bulk funding will give the government more power over schools rather than less. The lack of skill in school governance and management to deal with the problems consequent upon bulk funding, and the incentive to only hire cheap teachers, are other arguments against bulk funding.	John H (8)
720812	2008-11-17 21:05:00	John H, right, I am with you now....... While I understand the cheap teacher bit and balance requirements, I do think ToB's should be responsible for salaries as they are in the best position to allocate and decide proportionate requirements for the school. Surely it is up to the school parents to ensure the ToB is up to scratch. Maybe school ToB's need better regulation and SLA'a. I dont see how the government can fund salaries any difference without more Bureaucracy is which half the problem the country faces at the moment. Perhaps they need to measure school head count and match with per rata experience and qual for teachers then add weighting for location, I dont know. I do know how bad some BoT's can be when in a small community, however that is down to community responsibility no? As to more pay up North, I think that is to do with cost of living differences between the 2 islands, but that is a guess. I have no knowledge of ACT mandates, however I do agree with some of RR extreme views re: crime and there was a couple more.....I dont think RR will get many of them passed however...	SolMiester (139)
720813	2008-11-17 21:08:00	Jeez guys, enough with the personal insults.....back on subject ya dickheads...! This election has been gasoline for the insult fire :lol:	rob_on_guitar (4196)
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