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Thread ID: 95616	2008-12-12 05:03:00	US Car Bail-out Fails In Senate	SurferJoe46 (51)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
728107	2008-12-13 04:34:00	I can tell you why a jar of peanut butter costs as much as it does . And potato chips . And medical costs . And automobiles . And Housing loans . And food . Because the usa keep on invading countries, living beyond there means driving up the cost of oil	plod (107)
728108	2008-12-13 05:35:00	Now...if you were to make - say 100 cars on a day - when the production could conceivable be over 250 cars and the unions say that you cannot work past that quota yet you will still get paid for a full 8-hour day and a promise of triple-overtime at holiday time ?? A few years ago, I saw a news article which claimed that the Honda Accord was America's most exported car. To me, that says - - that Japanese designed cars are more in-demand than US ones - that Americans can still make cars - that the above-described unions don't cause problems at the Honda plant.	decibel (11645)
728109	2008-12-13 06:17:00	?? A few years ago, I saw a news article which claimed that the Honda Accord was America's most exported car . To me, that says - - that Japanese designed cars are more in-demand than US ones - that Americans can still make cars - that the above-described unions don't cause problems at the Honda plant . It's the money! The Honda (and most non-US import-manufacturing plants) are non-union and therefor are in a better comfort zone for profits . Hondas, fer instance, are exported to other lands from the US where the demand for them here is also higher . It's simple logic and logistics: build them here from Japanese parts and then sell most of them here and the rest go to places like Mexico, Australia and some to Europe . GM re-badges a LOT of cars to foreign places like youse guys and Australia and all of Europe . Ford is broke, money-wise and has been for a few years now . Chrysler is the bastard child of MOPAR and is a total orphan now after it lost all it's Euro-holdings . All the Euro companies wanted was the Chrysler name and it's licenses . . far be it for me to figger WHY! Toyota and Mazda and Nissan all have assy plants in the US and are not union shops so they can compete better with the higher-priced union made US cars . The unions have sucked the blood from the US car makers	SurferJoe46 (51)
728110	2008-12-13 16:31:00	Workers working for GM, Chrysler & Ford only earn about $3.00 per hour more than those at Japanese/European plants in the US. Three dollars an hour per worker, per day would add to quite a bit ! I was amazed when I heard that the unions had not agreed to lower their wages and conditions ! They must be made, loose a few dollars and keep your job, or keep those dollars and loose hundreds of thousands of jobs. So now I say, let them collapse, Ford (they have more cash) will probably carry on, and may do better as they will sell cars to people that would have bought GM or Chrsyler. But the US and the rest of the world must realise that they cannot keep losing their manufacturing base, and that we cannot keep importing everything from China or we will have no jobs and no money to buy their stuff with. Indeed the Chinese government told the US the other day (when asked for a bit of help) , that instead of borrowing and importing, they must start saving and producing !	Digby (677)
728111	2008-12-13 21:01:00	GM and Chrsyler carried on making huge cars of sh*@ quality when the Japs and Europeans starting making small, micro,electrical and hybrid cars. Funny thing even the redneck obese septic tanks stopped buying them. Bit hard playing a good ol boy (fat with confederate flag on back window) image with your 2 ton pickup if you cant afford the petrol to drive it. The Democrats will try to bail out the 2 loser companies but it wont be enough the 70 billion will just be a down payment, they will stck their hands out for more next year.	prefect (6291)
728112	2008-12-13 21:11:00	GM and Chrsyler carried on making huge cars of sh*@ quality when the Japs and Europeans starting making small, micro,electrical and hybrid cars. Funny thing even the redneck obese septic tanks stopped buying them. Bit hard playing a good ol boy (fat with confederate flag on back window) image with your 2 ton pickup if you cant afford the petrol to drive it. The Democrats will try to bail out the 2 loser companies but it wont be enough the 70 billion will just be a down payment, they will stck their hands out for more next year. Petrol is a lot cheaper in the states than it is here. A LOT cheaper. Re: Rednecks; I don't believe you. Maybe urban Americans are buying foreign cars, but the Ford monster pickup trucks have always been the most popular cars in the states. And unless I hear from Joe telling me otherwise then I'm fairly sure that they still are. Agreed that it's not sensible, and that they should have upped their quality and efficiency stats. But who expects sensible from America? Also agreed that this will cost them that much more.	Thebananamonkey (7741)
728113	2008-12-14 01:52:00	Yes - America is a big country So they need big cars And petrol is cheap there They just need to make them better quality and stop the unions bleeding them dry and stop paying huge fat cat salaries until their sales justify it ! I also read years ago that the big three gave all their top executives their top of the range cars to take home. And that the Japanese companies in the US gave their top executives the bottom range cars to take home, so that they knew what the plebs were driving/putting up with, so they went on to improve them !	Digby (677)
728114	2008-12-14 02:05:00	I also read years ago that the big three gave all their top executives their top of the range cars to take home. And that the Japanese companies in the US gave their top executives the bottom range cars to take home, so that they knew what the plebs were driving/putting up with, so they went on to improve them ! Slight change of subject, but this is exactly why Teresa Gattung was so out of touch with her customers - I'll bet she got free, unlimited broadband, never paid exorbitant mobile charges and could call anywhere in the world free of charge at any time. It was only the moaners on the Press F1 forum who weren't happy!	decibel (11645)
728115	2008-12-14 02:51:00	The cash transfusion is just another fix for a junkie and they will need more and bigger fixes as the months go by . Even if the factories were to get things running again and dumping the unions and all, then to whom would they sell the new cars they'd manufacture? There is NO credit market nor are there banks and lending institutions seeking to loan new money with a possibility of no return . Most of the US buys GM products, although Ford would like you to believe otherwise . It's just that Ford has the "Zero-dollar down and catch me if you can . . . " payments schedule and that sucks a lot of people in when they buy . GM has always been a little more conservative in their GMAC loans and they therefor have not so much to lose, but this also stifles sales when the dealers cannot get their own finance company to carry the buyers paper . Ford says it is the largest seller of trucks in the US, but the resells of them are also in multiple advertisement columns in the newspapers as people find out that they cannot get parts for their trucks and they want to get out of owning them ASAP . GM resales on the other hand - are a lot less by far as people hang on to their GM cars as they last longer, have fewer computer and transmission troubles and their highly venerated 3 . 8L (3800) engine is the industry standard . . for all manufacturers . . . even Honda and Toyota . Toyota and Honda too have entered the big truck markets in the last few years and who did they copy? Uh huh . . . GM! Ford has been writing so many latex checks to their suppliers that the suppliers are demanding back pay before they will consider selling to Ford again . . . if ever . Ford transmissions and engines are sitting in dealers' repair lots - waiting for parts that will never come - even for an authorized dealership . Their F-Series trucks and luxury cars are the worst break-down vehicles in the world . Spark plugs blow out of the heads taking the threads with them and destroying the COP ignition at the same time . Timing chains are breaking and crankshaft chain sprockets have a nasty habit of spinning on the crank after the Woodruf key has sheared, sending the valves merrily into the pistons and destroying the engines - for which there are no replacement parts let alone replacement engines . I have a few friends whom I advised EARNESTLY . . . to sell their large Ford/Mercury products about two years ago when there was some decent resale value to them - they hesitated - and now they cannot give them away . It's not the poor economy - it's lack of parts availability . You can order critical parts from the dealers but you have to pay for them in advance and there's no promised delivery date . I wouldn't mind buying Japanese, but I would miss the character that I get in my domestic vehicles . My Isuzu Amigo is an exceptional vehicle and has more than enough character for me all around . I hate cookie-cutter cars!	SurferJoe46 (51)
728116	2008-12-14 03:00:00	To answer the question of sales of pick-up trucks in the US: They aren't as popular as they were a few years ago, and high fuel prices were a tremendous scare-off for many . The headcount on real rednecks is significantly low right now too - they may all be up in "dem thar hills", loading their squirrel rifles and getting ready for a race riot . . . but I'm not going THERE right now . The biggest vehicle trend is to SUVs and their ilk . I dislike the term and don't want to be a soccer dad, so I am iconoclastic enough to own just one Chevy AstroVan ( . bestratedvan . com/includes/images/Chevy_Van/ChevroletAstroVan . jpg" target="_blank">www . bestratedvan . com), 4 . 3L, AT, AC, PS, PB, CC, ASC, Rear Heat-AC . , etc): also the 89 Isuzu Amigo ( . howstuffworks . com/gif/autoreview/400x266/1990-94-Isuzu-Amigo-90805051990103 . jpg" target="_blank">static . howstuffworks . com) and my older K5 Blazer ( . rockymountainsusp . com/Fischer_K5 . jpg" target="_blank">www . rockymountainsusp . com) (Chevy too) . That's all the running hardware I have right now . . except for a few derelicts that I own to fall back on - if time and circumstances require . Road and freeway traffic in the US is rife with econo-boxes, a smattering of trucks and a few more SUVs . Sales, on the other hand, have all but stopped right now .	SurferJoe46 (51)
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