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Thread ID: 95585	2008-12-11 01:13:00	Manual or Automatic	Roscoe (6288)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
727740	2008-12-22 04:47:00	Okay, just going to say, my cars back in business after a oil top up and a few ckecks on compression etc..... I overheated the car, but this Buick motor is bullet proof.......i will never get an alloy motor thats for sure...... You are now officially a pariah! Welcome to the club. :nerd:	SurferJoe46 (51)
727741	2008-12-22 06:42:00	Joey,the fact that you don't recognise the fact that jap cars are the best,is why your car companies are asking the taxpayer for a hand out. Yes the yanks have made good cars in the past,but as I said you have to move with the times. No problem getting people on here to agree that brit cars were rubish,the deal was,you bought one,then spent the weekend working on them to use during week.	Cicero (40)
727742	2008-12-22 07:13:00	Joey,the fact that you don't recognise the fact that jap cars are the best,is why your car companies are asking the taxpayer for a hand out. Yes the yanks have made good cars in the past,but as I said you have to move with the times. No problem getting people on here to agree that brit cars were rubish,the deal was,you bought one,then spent the weekend working on them to use during week. C'mon, Cic...since you are past the age of Bikey Pegs and you surely must know that it isn't the quality, but the greed, avarice and downright thievery of the CEOs and upper echelons of management that sucked the blood out of the industry. They are greedy, evil spoiled brats and thieves in the highest places who are exempt of morality and social consciences at all. Everybody is out to get "theirs" first and at the expense of anyone else - because they receive immunity in their cronies in the White House and Congress. It's totally corrupt. If a big-wheel gets caught with his hands in the cookie jar, then there's always a president who can (and usually does) grant a full pardon at the end of their term. Supreme Court and Superior Court Judges are morally bankrupt, pandering to Hollywood and the "pretty people" and the person in the trenches is just beaten with more inflation, higher taxes and lower civil services, yet the bigwigs still get theirs. The US has come full-circle into socialism, and although that sounds bad on the surface, the original constitutional credo is to be a Federalist Republic, which now it is NOT. When even countries like Sweden - a full-blown socialist regime - is actually lowering taxes in this current crisis, and China is lowering it's tariffs and taxes and opening up social programs for their citizens, yet the US is adding more and more odious loads on people who have no spines to fight corporate immorality nor the inclination to do anything other than just run full-tilt in survival mode, then things are indeed bad. The US prints more and more paper, and the citizens just go about - their heads bowed - being told that the only way out of this is to tax and spent more and more. After all, the US is the deep pocket for the rest of the world and it has to keep up appearances or lose face. Just before the Germans lost all in the Great Depression and Hitler took them out of it by promising them a Third Reich (The Third and Final World Power) - it took a wheelbarrow full of German Marks to buy one loaf of bread. Is the US so far behind? Is New Zealand or Australia or the UK? I am not a nationalist in even the slightest sense, but I can say with impunity that when the US sneezes the whole world catches a cold...but only for a little while longer. What I firmly believe is that - like a Pravda (Russian) news article said: "The US will not exist for it's next presidential election. It is both financially and morally bankrupt". It all boils down to immoral profits, greed and crooked politics; none of which is going away in the foreseeable future, I am afraid. This obviates the question: "What happened to the magnificent one-horse shay?" And I answer: It was built in GM, Ford and Chrysler where they created and sold the best and fastest and most glamorous vehicles in the world - at one time. Unlike Rome after it's heyday, the US is gonna take a lot of other people down with it. For the want of moral integrity, corporate intelligence and social conscience, a nation was lost. Know your REAL enemy. :sleep I need to sleep now.	SurferJoe46 (51)
727743	2008-12-22 07:52:00	This obviates the question: "What happened to the magnificent one-horse shay?" And I answer: It was built in GM, Ford and Chrysler where they created and sold the best and fastest and most glamorous vehicles in the world - at one time . Ssshhhh . . . . . . . . . . . . . While SJ's asleep it's safe to come out and fire a cannon through one of his arguments . GM, Ford and Chrysler never created or sold the best, even back then Mercedes made and sold the best, and I'm not 100% sure Detroit Iron was the fastest, but I'll give him that as a dead heat . As for glamorous it's a no-contest, SJ and the late US of A all the way, more chrome than a brothel-keeper's bedstead, more leather than his mistress's pleasure parlour and more body-roll than the Queen Mary in a force 9 gale, but oh what wonderful expressions of the gross excesses of the automotive art . I have books and books of them, some dating back (ahem) over 50 years to my childhood . I saw a bright yellow Cord in the flesh down in Napier a year or so back and its paintwork will never be the same again . Cheers Billy 8-{) :wub PS . what's a one horse shay SJ? I only know about the Model A and T-Bird . I presume you are not referring to the steam locomotive? I have books on those works of art too .	Billy T (70)
727744	2008-12-22 08:15:00	Ssshhhh . . . . . . . . . . . . . While SJ's asleep it's safe to come out and fire a cannon through one of his arguments . GM, Ford and Chrysler never created or sold the best, even back then Mercedes made and sold the best, and I'm not 100% sure Detroit Iron was the fastest, but I'll give him that as a dead heat . As for glamorous it's a no-contest, SJ and the late US of A all the way, more chrome than a brothel-keeper's bedstead, more leather than his mistress's pleasure parlour and more body-roll than the Queen Mary in a force 9 gale, but oh what wonderful expressions of the gross excesses of the automotive art . I have books and books of them, some dating back (ahem) over 50 years to my childhood . I saw a bright yellow Cord in the flesh down in Napier a year or so back and its paintwork will never be the same again . Cheers Billy 8-{) :wub PS . what's a one horse shay SJ? I only know about the Model A and T-Bird . I presume you are not referring to the steam locomotive? I have books on those works of art too . YOU WOKE ME UP FOR THAT? Good grief!!!! I have your One Horse Shay right here: (you asked for it - and it's a (blimey!) P_O_E_M! If you need help with the big words, let me know . . . . Have you heard of the wonderful one-hoss shay, That was built in such a logical way It ran a hundred years to a day, And then, of a sudden, it — ah, but stay, I’ll tell you what happened without delay, Scaring the parson into fits, Frightening people out of their wits, — Have you ever heard of that, I say? Seventeen hundred and fifty-five . Georgius Secundus was then alive, — Snuffy old drone from the German hive . That was the year when Lisbon-town Saw the earth open and gulp her down, And Braddock’s army was done so brown, Left without a scalp to its crown . It was on the terrible Earthquake-day That the Deacon finished the one-hoss shay . Now in building of chaises, I tell you what, There is always somewhere a weakest spot, — In hub, tire, felloe, in spring or thill, In panel, or crossbar, or floor, or sill, In screw, bolt, thoroughbrace, — lurking still, Find it somewhere you must and will, — Above or below, or within or without, — And that’s the reason, beyond a doubt, A chaise breaks down, but doesn’t wear out . But the Deacon swore (as Deacons do, With an “I dew vum,” or an “I tell yeou”) He would build one shay to beat the taown ’N’ the keounty ’n’ all the kentry raoun’; It should be so built that it couldn’ break daown: “Fur,” said the Deacon, “’tis mighty plain Thut the weakes’ place mus’ stan’ the strain; ’N’ the way t’ fix it, uz I maintain, Is only jest T’ make that place uz strong uz the rest . ” So the Deacon inquired of the village folk Where he could find the strongest oak, That couldn’t be split nor bent nor broke, — That was for spokes and floor and sills; He sent for lancewood to make the thills; The crossbars were ash, from the straightest trees, The panels of white-wood, that cuts like cheese, But lasts like iron for things like these; The hubs of logs from the “Settler’s ellum,” — Last of its timber, — they couldn’t sell ’em, Never an axe had seen their chips, And the wedges flew from between their lips, Their blunt ends frizzled like celery-tips; Step and prop-iron, bolt and screw, Spring, tire, axle, and linchpin too, Steel of the finest, bright and blue; Thoroughbrace bison-skin, thick and wide; Boot, top, dasher, from tough old hide Found in the pit when the tanner died . That was the way he “put her through . ” “There!” said the Deacon, “naow she’ll dew!” Do! I tell you, I rather guess She was a wonder, and nothing less! Colts grew horses, beards turned gray, Deacon and deaconess dropped away, Children and grandchildren — where were they? But there stood the stout old one-hoss shay As fresh as on Lisbon-earthquake-day! EIGHTEEN HUNDRED; — it came and found The Deacon’s masterpiece strong and sound . Eighteen hundred increased by ten; — “Hahnsum kerridge” they called it then . Eighteen hundred and twenty came; — Running as usual; much the same . Thirty and forty at last arrive, And then come fifty, and FIFTY-FIVE . Little of all we value here Wakes on the morn of its hundreth year Without both feeling and looking queer . In fact, there’s nothing that keeps its youth, So far as I know, but a tree and truth . (This is a moral that runs at large; Take it . — You’re welcome . — No extra charge . ) FIRST OF NOVEMBER, — the Earthquake-day, — There are traces of age in the one-hoss shay, A general flavor of mild decay, But nothing local, as one may say . There couldn’t be, — for the Deacon’s art Had made it so like in every part That there wasn’t a chance for one to start . For the wheels were just as strong as the thills, And the floor was just as strong as the sills, And the panels just as strong as the floor, And the whipple-tree neither less nor more, And the back crossbar as strong as the fore, And spring and axle and hub encore . And yet, as a whole, it is past a doubt In another hour it will be worn out! First of November, ’Fifty-five! This morning the parson takes a drive . Now, small boys, get out of the way! Here comes the wonderful one-hoss shay, Drawn by a rat-tailed, ewe-necked bay . “Huddup!” said the parson . — Off went they . The parson was working his Sunday’s text, — Had got to fifthly, and stopped perplexed At what the — Moses — was coming next . All at once the horse stood still, Close by the meet’n’-house on the hill . First a shiver, and then a thrill, Then something decidedly like a spill, — And the parson was sitting upon a rock, At half past nine by the meet’n-house clock, — Just the hour of the Earthquake shock! What do you think the parson found, When he got up and stared around? The poor old chaise in a heap or mound, As if it had been to the mill and ground! You see, of course, if you’re not a dunce, How it went to pieces all at once, — All at once, and nothing first, — Just as bubbles do when they burst . End of the wonderful one-hoss shay . Logic is logic . That’s all I say . Color/colour me :sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep	SurferJoe46 (51)
727745	2008-12-22 09:39:00	That's a fantastic poem. I don't know how much of it I actually took away, if I'm being honest, but it was cool nonetheless. I'm waiting for someone else to throw something else in the mix. What do people think of Tata? Can you see them buying any more of the US out? Another Jaguar? Corvette, perhaps?	Thebananamonkey (7741)
727746	2008-12-22 20:04:00	That's a fantastic poem . I don't know how much of it I actually took away, if I'm being honest, but it was cool nonetheless . I'm waiting for someone else to throw something else in the mix . What do people think of Tata? Can you see them buying any more of the US out? Another Jaguar? Corvette, perhaps? THIS: (" . . . . . . . I'm waiting for someone else to throw something else in the mix . ") Let me pontificate . . . . . . We don't see Tatas here (but that's a slang word for mammary glands, so I imagine the moniker would have to be changed to make a salable item in the US, at least without any rude jokes) . "Another Jaguar"? Hmmm! Interesting thought! I always admired the styling and panache, but the internal workings left much - MUCH to be desired, even when they started using more robust powerplants and decent electrics . But the die had been cast in the American eye: it was a poor performer - not in power - but reliability . It seems they required weekly tune-ups and services that if you weren't a Hollywood-type, few could afford either in time or dollars spent . Many Jags had Chevrolet engines and transmissions installed in them to circumvent the non-reliability issues, and THAT was truly a road-hungry performance masterpiece with Olde Ænglifh pug character and burnished-burled ambiance . If you're thinking that Tata would/could make a Jag one-off, well - I'd like to see something good happen to a long-toothed, venerable logo . <wishful dreaming> On to the Corvette - THE American icon indicative of the Halcyon days of the US in the late '50s . Poodle skirts, Fleer Double-Bubble gum and 45 RPM records were all the rage and the US was ready for something to rival the Brit "sports car" image . Did I forget Elvis? I cannot think of anything that so well stated the "take no prisoners" attitude in auto-making that stood in great stead up into the very late 1990s . With revolutionary two-seater/fiberglass chopper-gun bodies and innovative (later on) single leaf transverse rear suspension, the vehicles were the first to achieve 1-g turning forces, a feat that is yet to be accomplished by but a few higher-performance ($$$) Italian and German imports, and virtually NO other production cars with the possible exception of the Chevrolet Police cousin-model of the Caprice . The car exuded the rising US perisocial DINK mentality = Dual-Income-No-Kids . No room for them anyway in the nonexistent back seat! The engines at first were just production passenger car powerplants: I cite the use of the "BlueFlame Six" engine with a pair of Rochester 1bbl carbs and an automatic, 2-speed transmission . Suspension was - er - clunky - for lack of a better word, since the early 'Vettes were badly suspended with overhung and off-center heavy iron parts that bounced merrily on the roads and kept the tire contact patch time to lightly less than 30% . Latter designs naturally had great improvements in suspension, cyclic rates and braking, etc . Horsepower was never a real problem as they got bigger engines; the first production fuel injection system by Rochester (c 1957½) and more and more cubic inches . Not only did this car blister the straightaways, it could run circles around, even figure eights encircling the UK versions of macho-NOT cars that were coming from the little island . Small note here: Fuel injection first saw regular use on a Chevrolet and Corvette gasoline engine two years prior on the Mercedes-Benz 300SL "gullwing" roadster . Add to the lineup: as listed by Chevrolet's advertising agency for the 283 hp/283 CID (4 . 6L) "one hp per cubic inch" slogan, making it one of the first mass-produced engines in history to reach 1 hp/CID . The Corvette's handling characteristics and cornering ability allowed it to dominate SCCA events and races during the 1980s and 1990s . It was undefeated in SCCA Showroom Stock competition from 1985 through 1987, despite Porsche's (Wolfsberg's) best efforts . Porsche reportedly even obtained a C4 Corvette for teardown and examination but could not duplicate the same levels of skidpad g-forces and control . Zora Arkus-Duntov ( . wikipedia . org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov" target="_blank">en . wikipedia . org) (Father of the Corvette) was totally responsible and instrumental with the outcome of the Corvette even to the models we have today with smaller and more powerful engines, radical new technology with manual 5 and 6-speed transmission and an automatic OD on top of high gear for economy . Chevrolet and the Chevrolet Corvette quickly became one of the most successful manufacturers of high performance in the history of motor racing here (US) or abroad; drag strip or circle track; rally or road racing . Running 87 octane fuel - the lowest grade in the US at sea level - the current models are indeed very powerful, fast and surprisingly top-notch minimal fuel imbibers . Even from the get-go, the Ford Thunderbird was a poor - poor second place that ONLY resembled a sports car in that it was a two-bucket-seats-in-the-front-and-no-seats-in-the-rear design, ala the Corvette . The T-Bird was heavy, clumsy and vastly underpowered even to it's era standards . Doors fell off or missed the latches entirely, and later models have a seriously beefed-up frame to compensate which added to the tonnage in a big way . The Bird stuck with the "Y-block" (antiquated at birth 312, 332, 352 & 392 truck-type) engines that had deep crankcase skirts to add stiffness to the flimsy casting in a vainglorious attempt to keep the crankshaft from establishing it's own epicenter of operation . They were - however - "cute cars" in a blonde-female mindset kind of way . Ah! My first Corvette was a 1958 FI, 327 CI 4-speed close ratio with a 4 . 10:1 Posi differential and Cragar 15 inch mags . I added Mickey Thompson's "Wrinkle-Wall" 12X15" drag slicks straight from ol' Mick's dragster shop in Wilmington, CA after they saw 200+ MPH blasts down the ¼-mile strip . He couldn't use them past the first wear hole indicator, but I could use them on the street! I could send them up in smoke from every redlight in town, and much to the chagrin of the local Barney Fifes, I could also out run them . Did I just say that? My second Corvette was a 1971 4-speed and Posi-Traction 454ci, 425 HP (317 kW) which I quickly replaced with an all aluminum 427 CID big block (ZL-1) with a "conservative" 525 horsepower . Yes - I went DOWN in cubic inches but went UP in horses . I bet it was more like 600+ HP as my 1/4-mile speeds went up a lot and the time went down a very LARGE amount . I also saved a LOT of weight in the front end and I feel I went to a true 50:50 front-to-rear weight balance . At a 13 . 7:1 compression ratio, I was running Chevron Custom White Pump at 106 octane (old values) and even at US 49 . 9¢ a gallon, it was still kinda steep in those days to pay for all the fun . It was . . . er . . . exciting to drive and it never had any real competition with the other street racers of it's day . I wasn't after "roundy-round" cornering . I wanted G's and more G's to pin me to my seat, which it did with frantic busy-ness and smoke at the tires . 7,500 RPM power shifts would re-light the tires at every shift . Oh, well . . . on to things more current and timely . . . . . . . NEWS FLASH!!! Japan's biggest carmaker Toyota has forecast its first annual loss in 71 years due to plummeting sales and a surge in the value of the yen . The firm said it expected a loss of 150bn yen (£1 . 1bn) in yearly operating profits - from its core operations . Company chief Katsuaki Watanabe said the current downturn was of a size that came only "once in a hundred years" . Japan posted a trade deficit in November of $2 . 5bn (£1 . 7bn) as exports fell at a record rate . The rising yen saw export levels down 26 . 7% from a year earlier, the ministry of finance said . So - even with the Big Three's troubles - here's another hiccup in the world's economy proving that no-one is going to be exempt of this current down-turn in the financial arena . Japan's Sun may indeed also be in near-nadir with the US .	SurferJoe46 (51)
727747	2008-12-22 20:31:00	Leafsprings! Gah! And Tata now own Jaguar, which is where I was going with that. I can see further acquisitions as likely events. Just like that Rover is now chinese, which makes me laugh.	Thebananamonkey (7741)
727748	2008-12-22 20:57:00	Just like that Rover is now chinese, which makes me laugh . Totally non-PC here: Will they call it the "Lover" then?	SurferJoe46 (51)
727749	2008-12-22 22:11:00	Totally non-PC here: Will they call it the "Lover" then? According to the "top gear" lads,the USA hasn't made a car yet that will go round corners! . Say what you like about limey cars they do go round corners . Lotus,or Chapman changed th 500 forever,all current cars based on his deign .	Cicero (40)
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