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Thread ID: 95881	2008-12-19 19:58:00	Zimbabwe - What do you think will happen, long-term?	Strommer (42)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
731092	2008-12-23 05:44:00	There is so much about African history that I do not know. Comparing past civilizations, e.g. Mayan and Angkor - were there similar great civilizations in Africa (sub Sahara)? Yes, coincidentally called Great Zimbabwe which existed from the 11th century to the 15th century. en.wikipedia.org Also check this page out wsu.edu One theory why we don't find much evidence of early African societies is that it was a vast isolated continent peopled by nomadic tribes. There was no population pressure or outside invaders to force tribes to settle in specific areas. No need for secure towns and fortifications. By contrast, along the Mediterranean Coast there was plenty of competition and thats where we find the Egyptians etc.	Winston001 (3612)
731093	2008-12-23 05:53:00	You can believe that as a matter of fact. Read a few history books and you'll see African tribes at war since time began. "The strong one rules". Get slaves from counter-robbing each other. sarel Ok, tell us what way that is different from anywhere else? You don't think the white Europeans sat around in group hugs......? In fact recently Europeans indulged in two world wars within 20 years, killing millions. The Vikings, Visigoths and the Vandals were of course misunderstood. What appeared to be rape and pillage was just over-enthusiastic partying when they went out visiting the neighbours. :)	Winston001 (3612)
731094	2008-12-23 07:48:00	We saw what Africans can do in Rwanda with bang sticks	prefect (6291)
731095	2008-12-23 08:22:00	So.......you seriously believe that before the modern firearm arrived, whole tribes roamed nomadically across the face of this vast continent robbing everyone else? Where'd they get the slaves from if the other guys were also out raping and pillaging.....? They'd keep missing each other. ? Yes. Here is an example. en.wikipedia.org Southern Rhodesia needs splitting in 2 to stop those 2 different tribes from fighting. The 5th brigade can only do so much. One of Mugabe's strengths is/was that he managed to meld together the Shona tribes, who are now an amalgamated entity. The Matabele are a spent force as far as tribal conflict go. 5 Brigade was very effective and, so long as there is a Matabele figurehead, there has been no tribal fighting. Josh Nkomo, selling out to ZANU had a big impact on Matabele moral too.	joemac (9739)
731096	2008-12-23 17:52:00	If you want to ask a real question it is this: why have the African colonies of European powers slipped backwards since independence? Compared to the Asian and South American colonies which have forged ahead.......? A very good question, that I as an amateur historian etc, cannot really answer.	Digby (677)
731097	2008-12-23 21:12:00	Africa is the land of the strongman while Europeans do committees quite well. As soon a strongman goes another will pop up. Just like that game where you hit moles with a hammer when they stick their head out of a hole.	prefect (6291)
731098	2008-12-23 21:48:00	A very good question, that I as an amateur historian etc, cannot really answer. It seems to me,that they wouldn't have a brain between them. If they do,it eludes me.	Cicero (40)
731099	2008-12-23 22:39:00	If you want a really depressing read, try The State of Africa by Martin Meredith. It covers most African countries post colonisation, and it is a truly awful read. It covers some of the colonisation history too - how the colonies were carved up and treated by their colonial rulers. I suggest you don't read the history of what the Belgians did in their colonies before you go to bed (particularly the Belgian king when he owned the colonies in his own name). Some of the troubles seem to be caused by the cultural trait in sub Saharan tribal Africa of "the big man" which leads to widespread corruption. The colonial powers are still in there in a big way, not so much in the form of kings and governments as in multi national corporations who are still stripping Africa of its wealth for profit. They stitch up deals with the big men, who get the money for mining rights etc rather than the government of the country concerned. The money is then distributed to all those who owe allegiance to the big man (who of course still gets to keep the bulk of the payments). The book doesn't suggest any realistic hope of change in the coming years...	John H (8)
731100	2008-12-24 01:29:00	The Germans weren't so nice in South West Africa either.	prefect (6291)
731101	2008-12-24 02:20:00	The Germans weren't so nice in South West Africa either. Thank goodness for the English. The Afrikaans are a problem.	Cicero (40)
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