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Thread ID: 96454	2009-01-11 05:11:00	Gaza\Israel Conflict	SolMiester (139)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
737351	2009-01-13 11:08:00	The establishers of modern Israel, primarily European Jews who survived the halocaust, have a very simple survial philosophy, " Never again". Israel's neighbours have been persistently trying since 1948 to drive the Israelis out, to date unsuccessfully, but they are quite open in their declared intention to destroy the state of Israel. Despite the constant threats to their national security from their neighbours the Israelis have built a modern democratic state, and have tried to come to an accommodation with their neighbours, with some success, namely Egypt and Jordan, but the radical hardline Muslims states are not prepared to settle for anything less than the destruction of the State of Israel. Put yourself in Israel's position, its simple be strong and stand up for yourself or be destroyed - Not really a hard choice. Modern warfare is expensive and destroys national wealth, modern smart countries don't fight unless they have no choice or it is forced on them. Hamas and Hizbollah are financed by Oil rich Muslim states, and the problem is not going to go away while Muslim oil revenue finances the fanatics. The question on the legitimacy of Israel's claim to their land is irrelevant to the Israelis, They have nowhere else to go, they intend to stay put and will fight to keep what they have, and who realistically if they were in the same position would not make the same stand.	KenESmith (6287)
737352	2009-01-13 11:39:00	The Israelis are killing over one hundred Palestinians for every Israeli killed. The people who live in Gaza now live amongst huge destruction caused by the Israelis that we can hardly comprehend how hard it is to live amongst. It is absolutely stragic. Young Palestinians who might otherwise have grown up as moderates, will become fanatics. :groan: The Israelis are setting up, as they have done for a long time now a worse situation for the future. :groan: To think that many years ago I applauded the Israeli wins in the six day war and for a long period after that ! :xmouth: Misty :groan:	Misty (368)
737353	2009-01-13 12:18:00	Young Palestinians who might otherwise have grown up as moderates Yeah Right!!!	beeswax34 (63)
737354	2009-01-13 20:41:00	The Israelis are killing over one hundred Palestinians for every Israeli killed. The people who live in Gaza now live amongst huge destruction caused by the Israelis that we can hardly comprehend how hard it is to live amongst. It is absolutely stragic. Young Palestinians who might otherwise have grown up as moderates, will become fanatics. :groan: The Israelis are setting up, as they have done for a long time now a worse situation for the future. :groan: To think that many years ago I applauded the Israeli wins in the six day war and for a long period after that ! :xmouth: Misty :groan: Did you read and understand the link in the previous page at all?	SolMiester (139)
737355	2009-01-13 20:46:00	Thanks for that. As I mentioned earlier the Egyptians took the area from someone else (probably the Canaanites and various other tribes) which that page downright omits given their first mention of invaders is the Philistines (who ejected the Egyptians in about 1100-1200BC). Basically that page is incomplete if you are seeking reference to Egyptians. The Egyptians most probably took it from the Canaanites (pure guess) but the Canaanites were not the first people there either..... Given the area is located very close to the land bridge from Africa (being the birthplace of modern man) and it effectively links three different continents, then there is no doubt it has been populated by mankind for a very very long time. In fact remains have been found that date back to before the last ice age (but that's irrelevant for this discussion, just a factoid). But the Canaanites mentioned in that article were neither Israelites, Hebrews or Jewish. It's a moot point but check this out : en.wikipedia.org and also check out the origin of Semitic languages. So my point still stands that the Israelites were not the original occupiers of the territory in question. If one was to place reliance on the 'Promised Land' text then you have to consider that mentions 8 other tribes in addition to the Canaanites. So I think any claim by any one group (not just the Israelites) as to being the original occupier is 100% spurious. The original occupiers of the land probably had no name for their communal belonging (their ethnic group?), no concept of land ownership and wouldn't even have known they were the original occupiers. I'm not passing judgement, merely stating that any claims by anyone (including the Palestinians) on the basis of historic occupation are not looking at the bigger picture. It seems elimination of previous occupiers or their kingdoms nullifies their claim. In any case, it doesn't excuse the atrocities being committed by both sides in the current conflict and I think most people (maybe not the arms dealers) would prefer if the fighting stopped...... A I guess the basis for my statement as original owners in that their are no other cultures alive from that period other than the Jews....however I will concede that their were other peoples in the area before the Jews	SolMiester (139)
737356	2009-01-14 01:41:00	And this Terry and Andy,is the classic taking sides. How the above,which is typical these days can be called the Jewish propaganda machine is beyond me. ROFL.....Maybe because the propaganda spin has been so successful that you don't know when you've been spun :) Quoting Solly and referring to the site mentioned "I just found a great document for you Andrew regarding original origin of the people of Israel....while it doesnt go back 10000 years it doesnt seem to mention the Epyption kingdoms at all...Palestinian Myths (www.imninalu.net)" For every 'fact' presented by one side there will be an alternative spin by the other side on that fact to give quite a different interpretation, often 180 deg out of phase. To counterbalance Sols site, here is a Palestinian information site: www.palestineremembered.com	Terry Porritt (14)
737357	2009-01-14 03:57:00	QUOTE=Misty;The Israelis are killing over one hundred Palestinians for every Israeli killed. The people who live in Gaza now live amongst huge destruction caused by the Israelis that we can hardly comprehend how hard it is to live amongst. It is absolutely stragic. Young Palestinians who might otherwise have grown up as moderates, will become fanatics.The Israelis are setting up, as they have done for a long time now a worse situation for the future. To think that many years ago I applauded the Israeli wins in the six day war and for a long period after that ! Misty Yeah Right,whatever!!!:lol: If someone hits you,do you go sweet as do it again I like it?:lol: Are you a life long card carrying Green Activist white weak liberal member as well that will side with what ever is popular in the media as well and you belive everything you are told be them in a 3 minute news brief as gosspel?:lol: They are firing missiles at Israel.Israel is trying to stop them from doing that.Is that wrong?:stare: If someone was doing it to NZ would you want your government and military to stop it,or would you say sweet as keep doing it,it's all good they have a reason to do it!!!?:groan:	memphis (2869)
737358	2009-01-14 04:12:00	The first casuality in any conflict is truth and justice. He started it!!! No he started it!!! You said!!! No I did'nt!!! It's because!!! That's bulls!@# Your dad did this!!! Your grandad did this!!! It's because you did......... :D	memphis (2869)
737359	2009-01-14 04:26:00	ROFL.....Maybe because the propaganda spin has been so successful that you don't know when you've been spun :) Quoting Solly and referring to the site mentioned "I just found a great document for you Andrew regarding original origin of the people of Israel....while it doesnt go back 10000 years it doesnt seem to mention the Epyption kingdoms at all...Palestinian Myths (www.imninalu.net)" For every 'fact' presented by one side there will be an alternative spin by the other side on that fact to give quite a different interpretation, often 180 deg out of phase. To counterbalance Sols site, here is a Palestinian information site: www.palestineremembered.com OMG Terry, you are such a tool, if you cant see the difference between the Palestinian Mission Statement of Death to all Jews, rearing of children for terrorism then you my friend are already lost. Apart from the outright lies, the Arabs admit they are bent on the destruction of Israel as apposed to self preservation of the Jewish counter-attacks. Yes the Jews are taking all the land they can get their hands on, but they are developing it. In 60 years the Jews have developed more than the Arabs of Palestine in the last thousand years. Yes, the repercussion against the Palestinians are out of proportion to the attacks, however, but we are not playing tit for tat, I only wish they would finish the job already! This is a forum and everyone is allowed their own opinion, however I must say Terry, you disappoint me immensely.	SolMiester (139)
737360	2009-01-14 05:35:00	OMG Terry, you are such a tool, if you cant see the difference between the Palestinian Mission Statement of Death to all Jews, rearing of children for terrorism then you my friend are already lost. Apart from the outright lies, the Arabs admit they are bent on the destruction of Israel as apposed to self preservation of the Jewish counter-attacks. Yes the Jews are taking all the land they can get their hands on, but they are developing it. In 60 years the Jews have developed more than the Arabs of Palestine in the last thousand years. Yes, the repercussion against the Palestinians are out of proportion to the attacks, however, but we are not playing tit for tat, I only wish they would finish the job already! This is a forum and everyone is allowed their own opinion, however I must say Terry, you disappoint me immensely. He is a good lad our Terry,just that he sees things through pink tinted glasses.	Cicero (40)
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