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Thread ID: 97529	2009-02-19 03:19:00	Lack of Computer Programmers....	NZfunk (13162)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
749222	2009-02-19 05:01:00	There's a big difference between "computer programmers", good "computer programmers", and good "software developers". It's easy to find programmers, but finding people who are actually good at it, and will do a good job is another story altogether. Likewise, finding someone who can churn out program code is different to someone who can also properly architect and design an application, plus have the people-skills to deal with clients is where things become difficult.	somebody (208)
749223	2009-02-19 05:36:00	also if anyone has tips on what can take you from being an average programmer to a good one... . Talent. And hard work. Had a friend who was headhunted from Polytech, started on 32k a year, ended up on loads and loads. But she wasn't just good, she was exceptional.	pctek (84)
749224	2009-02-19 05:39:00	Can't get a job without experience; can't get experience without a job... Catch Number 22 Yep exactly - guess im going to have to offer to go on 'trial' for a few weeks and prove myself - maybe then ill get a job.	Bozo (8540)
749225	2009-02-19 05:50:00	Yep exactly - guess im going to have to offer to go on 'trial' for a few weeks and prove myself - maybe then ill get a job. You need to go for the larger companies which have well established grad programmes. The likes of Intergen, IBM, and those "type" of companies hire lots of graduates. Applications for these are usually really early in the year - i.e. one of my previous employers (a large IT company, although they don't do much development work) is advertising for their 2010 grad intake in March, with the aim of signing people before the middle of the year.	somebody (208)
749226	2009-02-19 06:16:00	I am just sitting around here honing my COBOL skills for 2099 in case the world can not cope. Have not had a syntax error for some time now. Logic errors can be another thing however. What makes a good programmer? Documented code and modular code so that the code can or may be used by any person in the Company. Systems analysis may be a better thing to get into in my opinion.	Sweep (90)
749227	2009-02-19 06:30:00	Yep exactly - guess im going to have to offer to go on 'trial' for a few weeks and prove myself - maybe then ill get a job. You need to offer to work for a few months at no cost, if you are really serious and want the experience. A few weeks won't be enough time. The money at this stage won't matter, as you need the experience. Treat it as part of your education. eg. YOu don't get paid to study. I tried to hire a developer a few years ago, and honestly the quality of the person wasn't good. They tended to all be young gen 'Y'ers who thought that they were doing me a favour by hiring them, and a lot of them had no experience and I didn't feel I could trust them to work by themselves. One even answered their phone while I was showing him things. I ended up using subcontracting companies instead of hiring.	robbyp (2751)
749228	2009-02-19 08:25:00	also if anyone has tips on what can take you from being an average programmer to a good one... . The difference between an average xxxx and a good one is being able to understand the detailed logic of the requirements, the programming standard is still important but a well written bug won't get you any credits. The key to being well paid is how well you sell yourself and what you have to bargain with of course, too hairy a subject to say too much here Cheers	Ofthesea (14129)
749229	2009-02-19 10:22:00	Thanks for all your input guys. My approach to the industry is to study hard and practice a lot. When I graduate I'll be looking to just get into a small company so i can continue to learn whats needed and wanted in the industry.. i.e. learn from the hard working programmers and ignore the slackers. I am not learning just one language, we are covering COBOL, C, C#,C++,JAVA and a couple more. However we can only "Major" in one. So I am going with Java based of the Idea that it is more popular in Aussie at the moment and thats where I'll be heading. Apparently C# is more popular in NZ and UK. (but thats probably open to debate also :P) I think a lot of people are put off programming by the diversity and constant upgrading your knowledge and languages... Thanks again for all the input...	NZfunk (13162)
749230	2009-02-19 10:31:00	Just be aware that by the time you graduate, something else will be the flavour of the month. The same warning is given to the cohort ahead of you by 12 months and behind you by 12 months.... Don't paint yourself into a corner...	johcar (6283)
749231	2009-02-19 11:42:00	Speaking with friends who are programmers, you really cant go too wrong with some PHP knowledge (Not just for web-dev), as well as basic knowledge of C, Java & .NET :) Mostly they reckon if you're pretty decent at them, you'll be able to tackle anything that comes your way :) That said, I can do basic HTML and thats about it, so Im certainly no expert :p	Chilling_Silence (9)
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