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Thread ID: 98611	2009-03-31 05:01:00	Standing Up For Self Defence	Terry Porritt (14)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
760959	2009-03-31 05:01:00	As the forum is in a law and order mood, lets have another stir.... :) I don't always agree with "Hollow Man" Richard Long, but his column in todays Dom Post gets it spot on (because I agree :) ) "Accordingly, we should be grateful to the two justices of the peace who last week dismissed charges of excessive violence against Otara liquor store owner Virender Singh for attacking two teens with a hockey stick after he and his nephew had been stabbed at their store." www.stuff.co.nz	Terry Porritt (14)
760960	2009-03-31 05:14:00	Is the Sensible Sentencing Trust for violent offending or against it? I can't keep track. That opinion is a bit light on details. From a NZ Herald article: "The law states that shop owners can use reasonable force to defend themselves, any other person and/or their property. But Mr Pizzini said those who chose to take the law into their own hands could face consequences. "Those that clearly exceed that force can expect to be arrested and held to account in the criminal court."" It appears as if the judge decided the force used was reasonable and charges were dismissed. Seems like our justice system worked. It's unfortunate that the shopkeeper had to go through the process, but that's life.	shermo (12739)
760961	2009-03-31 05:16:00	That's the solution Trevor de Cleene would have recommended. I can picture him sitting there, shotgun across his knees, supervising the repairs. There's a fine line between "self defence" and actually having it out on somebody, especially seeing as "dead men tell no tales", but I think ^^ works for me. A mans home should be his castle. If somebody breaks in during the night to steal from your family, you should be within your rights to defend yourself. Im not a big fellow by any stretch of the imagination, far from it, naturally I'd have to use some form of weapon to even the odds, even if its something like a half-smashed coffee mug. I know somebody who recently had their home burgled while his 15 year old son was still at home, they held him hostage while they cleaned out the place. Absolutely sick :(	Chilling_Silence (9)
760962	2009-03-31 05:34:00	You should be within your rights to shoot anybody on your property uninvited. Its not like people rock on up after dark to weed your garden.	Metla (12)
760963	2009-03-31 05:40:00	Years ago, when I still owned a shotgun (for possums, rabbits - pest control on the farm - and ducks - for the table), there was a wee story I heard about what to do if confronted with a burglar if you happened to be holding a loaded double-barrelled shotgun: one shot through the burglar, then a second shot shortly thereafter through the ceiling. The second shot being the 'warning shot' that you fired before the burglar ran at you and you had to put him down because you were in fear for your life. :stare: :) Never had an opportunity to use this information (thank goodness) and since the law was changed requiring gun owners to lock up their weapons (so the criminal element couldn't get their hands on them - Tui!) I no longer own a firearm.	johcar (6283)
760964	2009-03-31 06:25:00	The shop keep at Otara was imo a bit hard done by when the police charged him for laying into the dude. The only reason he could lay into them was they were a bit pissed and easy to whack. Different story if the young dudes were sober the shopkeep might have got hurt. I reckon the police could have used some tolerance when they lay charges as the whole country was saying give the shopkeep a break. Its not as if the cops dont get carried away with shooters and mace. I would pick a majority of people would have given the crook a thrashing he deserved.	prefect (6291)
760965	2009-03-31 06:32:00	You should be within your rights to shoot anybody on your property uninvited. Its not like people rock on up after dark to weed your garden. Ya wouldnt want it like usa where a father shot his daughter as she was sneaking back home after a nights rooting. Thinking it was a burglar.	prefect (6291)
760966	2009-03-31 06:46:00	The shop keep at Otara was imo a bit hard done by when the police charged him for laying into the dude. The only reason he could lay into them was they were a bit pissed and easy to whack. Different story if the young dudes were sober the shopkeep might have got hurt. I reckon the police could have used some tolerance when they lay charges as the whole country was saying give the shopkeep a break. Its not as if the cops dont get carried away with shooters and mace. I would pick a majority of people would have given the crook a thrashing he deserved. The shop keeper did get hurt - he got stabbed!	somebody (208)
760967	2009-03-31 07:23:00	You should be within your rights to shoot anybody on your property uninvited . Its not like people rock on up after dark to weed your garden . yes/no . people are weird . on one hand they want you to go all over there place uninvited and other times they don't . had some tourists who tuned up at a house, they liked the look of it so they walked all over the property taking photos until they got told to F off! also had it when looking for customers, farmer who complained we didn't drive out to the back of the farm and look for him . had one complained i didn't enter the empty house and install xyz while he wasn't home . last thing i would want is to end up at the wrong house (or wrong day etc) by mistake and get shot because someone thought i wasn't meant to be there . Ya wouldnt want it like usa where a father shot his daughter as she was sneaking back home after a nights rooting . Thinking it was a burglar . on the other hand i know a USA guy who's daughter had someone try to climb into her bedroom one night . they picked the wrong house, the guy probably had more firearm and room clearing training than most AOS members get . there is a good video of a kidnapping gone wrong, the home owner fought back . there is also the case of the WW2 veteran who got set upon by 3 teenagers . after trying to flee he fought back, killing one and wounding the others . there is also the study in one of the major USA city's that found that the average gang members are better in a shoot out than the average cop is . one big problem with any self defence situation is that the crim(s) lie . they know police can't prove jack and will happily lie and try to make themselves appear as the "victim" . the smarter ones will even set the situation up so it looks like they where the ones attacked .	tweak'e (69)
760968	2009-03-31 08:38:00	there is also the study in one of the major USA city's that found that the average gang members are better in a shoot out than the average cop is . There are plenty of studies finding that the average cop isn't very accurate, the average gang member probably isn't better just has more firepower .	PaulD (232)
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