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Thread ID: 99188	2009-04-23 00:54:00	Maybe NZ's education system isn't that bad after alll...	somebody (208)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
767655	2009-04-23 00:54:00	A report released by McKinsey & Company (www.mckinsey.com) looks at the appalling state of education in the US. Many people have been warning about this problem for years, but at least under the previous administration, they didn't really seem interested in tackling it - preferring to cater to the creationist nutjobs. The upside is, some of the statistics in that report show that NZ isn't doing too bad, ranking 7th and 4th in maths and science respectively. I do wonder though how accurately those figures represent the true state of education in this country, given the mess of NCEA. Thoughts/comments anyone?	somebody (208)
767656	2009-04-23 01:54:00	Have you had any experience with NCEA at all?	roddy_boy (4115)
767657	2009-04-24 08:43:00	A report released by McKinsey & Company (www.mckinsey.com) looks at the appalling state of education in the US. Many people have been warning about this problem for years, but at least under the previous administration, they didn't really seem interested in tackling it - preferring to cater to the creationist nutjobs. The upside is, some of the statistics in that report show that NZ isn't doing too bad, ranking 7th and 4th in maths and science respectively. I do wonder though how accurately those figures represent the true state of education in this country, given the mess of NCEA. Thoughts/comments anyone? Why do you think NCEA is a mess? I thought the education system was as good as any here. People don't like change in this country so NCEA cops it for being different than what they grew up with. Bring in any system you like and the same people will complain. These are the same one I suspect who still think XP is so good, when Vista works just fine for me. That should heat up the thread some.	Twelvevolts (5457)
767658	2009-04-24 09:16:00	I was one of the NCEA bunnys, resulting in 1 or 2 day weeks for a large portion of my year 9 (third form). Tell me that missing out on a year of decent education because our government expects our poorly paid teachers to up their workload is a great education system. Anyone who has been to school knows that each year builds on the last	hueybot3000 (3646)
767659	2009-04-24 09:18:00	These are the same one I suspect who still think XP is so good, when Vista works just fine for me. That should heat up the thread some. I personally love both, Vista IMO is good to look at, reliable and easy to use. Only downfall is speed XP is awesome at everything, on almost any machine	hueybot3000 (3646)
767660	2009-04-24 09:21:00	Why do you think NCEA is a mess? I thought the education system was as good as any here. People don't like change in this country so NCEA cops it for being different than what they grew up with. Bring in any system you like and the same people will complain. These are the same one I suspect who still think XP is so good, when Vista works just fine for me. That should heat up the thread some. I guess this wasn't my original point, but the problem with NCEA is that as a qualification it is (well - was) meaningless. The inclusion of Unit Standards within the programme meant that it was a wide disparity between the standard of students "passing" NCEA. For example, someone could easily get through without ever sitting an exam, by doing unit standards internally (which don't test the "higher level" thinking processes). So as a measure of a student's ability, having NCEA Level 1, 2, or 3 means nothing, until you look at their Record of Learning to see exactly what they did - there is simply too much diversity in what students can do to earn credits. Admittedly the recent inclusion of "Merit" and "Excellence" level certificates certainly helps put the focus on the academically focused Achievement Standards. On a second level of analysis, the sheer amount of internal assessment shifts the focus of what schools and teachers do, and put undue pressure on already an under-resourced education system. Schools are for learning, and a teacher's job is to teach. By making teachers assess students, they are put under huge pressure to make sure students pass - otherwise it'll be reflected in their performance, and the school's performance. This creates a culture of "teaching to the test" - rather than teaching students the skills, they are taught the bare minimum they need to pass. It also means that most schools will offer internally assessed unit standards in as well as achievement standards, so that they can keep their pass rates high. In addition to creating an environment where teachers are pressured to do unethical things like Cambridge High, it also takes valuable time away from teaching - class time has to be used up for the constant stream of unit and achievement standard assessments, re-assessments, and teacher's non-contact time used up for the associated paperwork and compliance with NZQA reporting, instead of preparing for classes. If we take this further, and look at the impact on students, we ultimately end up with people coming out of high school with the wrong perception of school (and life). NCEA teaches students that 1) learning is about finding out what you need to know to pass a test, 2) you must get a piece of paper when you leave school, and heading into the trades etc. is not as "important", 3) because of the amount of time in school taken up by assessment, they don't learn as much, and don't learn things as comprehensively because after all, they only need to know enough to pass the test. This has massive implications on the students entering tertiary study (and ultimately dropping out), or putting pressure on tertiary institutes to "dumb down" content to maintain pass/fail rates and keep enrolments up (which ultimately determine funding). There are students coming through to universities who don't have the skills or discipline necessary to study for and sit exams, and therefore struggle - UE is a joke, and is one of the reason why Auckland University was floating the idea of having their own entrance exams. Like the US's "no child left behind" policy, there are fundamental problems with the focus which NCEA has. The emphasis on getting that piece of paper before you leave school is wrong, as a lot of kids are better off going into the trades (where their interests are, and they can use their skills and talent to excel). Likewise, the emphasis on having to go to university is also fundamentally wrong - we've created a generation of people coming out with crippling student debt, and worthless degrees, who can't fulfil the needs of employers. In the interests of balance, NCEA does do some things right: - It addresses the fact that students can know what they're doing, but might not be good at exams - It does put some more emphasis on "applications" and "critical thinking", while the old system was more about memorising things - NZ Scholarship exams provide top students a good challenge - It doesn't have a single point of failure - i.e. if you have a bad day on your exam day, or become ill, you don't lose everything	somebody (208)
767661	2009-04-24 09:27:00	that was a bit of a read :lol: but couldnt have been summed up any better	hueybot3000 (3646)
767662	2009-04-24 09:30:00	NCEA decent? That's a joke. Take it from a student who did all three years and levels of NCEA.	qazwsxokmijn (102)
767663	2009-04-24 09:32:00	Me too, but i managed to fail level 3, due to lack of commitment	hueybot3000 (3646)
767664	2009-04-24 09:38:00	NCEA decent? That's a joke. Take it from a student who did all three years and levels of NCEA. Take it from a student who did all three years and levels of NCEA and UE in one year. It's not bragging, it's just a system that is far too easy to take advantage of, and far too easy all together. Compare our Level 3 work to the workload of Year 13's in the UK and you'll see exactly what I mean.	mabix (10146)
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