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Thread ID: 99803	2009-05-15 08:09:00	Acupuncture and Placebo Effect	Twelvevolts (5457)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
774165	2009-05-15 08:09:00	I just spent some time reading the internet about acupuncture after someone told me they were getting it for a sports injury. Was never sure if there was anything to it but now quite sure there isn't. Seems it is based on some hokum theory about life energy and in fact works through a placebo effect. So it makes no difference where you stick the needles as long as the sucker getting the treatment thinks it works. More interesting was reading about placebo effects and how things like sticking needles in people makes the effect stronger than say taking a sugar coated pill. No doubt you can get ACC for this and other quackery like Chiropractery, quite amazing how many people think it works.	Twelvevolts (5457)
774166	2009-05-15 08:58:00	I strongly belief it works provided you get the "right" practitioner to do it. There are many really good practitioners in China, Taiwan, Hongkong, and Singapore but I really doubt that there is (I maybe wrong, though) any in New Zealand. Let me know if someone can recommend me a really good one in Auckland.	bk T (215)
774167	2009-05-15 09:21:00	Acupuncture was totally under the radar in the West until Nixon went to China and as part of his visit he went to a hospital where an operation was being performed on some guy who was fully conscious and talking (and all filmed by American TV) If that was a placebo, then it was SOME placebo! (Also, not knowing HOW it works, doesn't mean it DOESN'T work.)	decibel (11645)
774168	2009-05-15 11:04:00	I strongly belief it works provided you get the "right" practitioner to do it. Yep, that's pretty much what I said, you believe it works so in a sense it does.	Twelvevolts (5457)
774169	2009-05-15 11:13:00	Acupuncture was totally under the radar in the West until Nixon went to China and as part of his visit he went to a hospital where an operation was being performed on some guy who was fully conscious and talking (and all filmed by American TV) If that was a placebo, then it was SOME placebo! (Also, not knowing HOW it works, doesn't mean it DOESN'T work.) Ok a quick search found this information on that supposed event. ""The latest revival of acupuncture followed Nixon's visit to China in 1972. He and his entourage were treated to dramatically staged examples of operations under acupuncture anaesthesia. Reports of these operations were grossly exaggerated and took no account of the published historical evidence of surgery being done in the West without any anaesthetic at all. Professors Geng Xichen and his colleague Tao Naihuang denounced surgical acupuncture as a myth and a hoax"	Twelvevolts (5457)
774170	2009-05-15 11:23:00	Just lump it in with all the other alternative medical treatments - homeopathy, reflexology, reiki, chiropractic, ... The common feature of all these is that the modern science establishment doesn't have any way of explaining how these work (it's magic!) and/or is actively suppressing these type of treatments to further the profits of Big Pharma. The important thing in all these is the enhanced placebo effect from believing that the practitioner is doing something for you. All of these treatments have been shown to be no different to placebo under controlled conditions. Acupuncture is one of the tricky ones here because it's very hard to convince someone you've stuck them with a needle when in fact you haven't. Certainly the theory that it uses "meridians" or "energy lines" has been shown to be bogus - patients respond no matter where the needles are put. A related study has shown that the placebo effect is enhanced when patients are told that their fake sugar pill costs more than another "cheap" pill. The only miraculous aspect to all this is that the human body even has a placebo effect, though - maybe the medical establishment could learn something about making the patient better believe in the treatment they're getting. Pity real doctors aren't supposed to lie...	MushHead (10626)
774171	2009-05-15 11:39:00	I think what I found most interesting from reading up on this was that the worse things that get done to you, it seems the stronger the belief that it works. It certainly doesn't appear conclusive that the needles themselves do anything, although I see there are various theories that they might release endorphins or the like.	Twelvevolts (5457)
774172	2009-05-15 22:02:00	Some research was done recently on this. It was based on Adults with chronic lower back pain. They were split into four groups. One group received an individual programme of acupuncture One group standard therapy; a third group had a simulation of acupuncture using toothpicks; and the fourth group had the usual care. After eight weeks, 60 per cent of those having some form of acupuncture were much improved. For those having conventional care, it was only 39 per cent. After a year between 59 and 69 percent of those treated with acupunture reported improvements, compared to 50 per cent of those have the usual care. But the findings did not establish whether the treatment actually helps heal or simply makes us think we feel better said Dr Cherkin of the group health centre for health studies in Seattle.	wmoore (6009)
774173	2009-05-15 22:14:00	Yep, that's pretty much what I said, you believe it works so in a sense it does. Well, not exactly. If you believe in something, it certainly helps psychologically; that applies to whatever you are doing and of course, includes western medicine. It is proven that Chinese acupuncture works if it is applied correctly by a trained professional. I really have my doubts that those practitioners in NZ are qualified acupuncturists professionals. They are here just to make a living:D. Similarly, there are many medical professionals here who totally have no professional ethics - there goal is to make as much money as they could, in short: very greedy.	bk T (215)
774174	2009-05-16 08:34:00	Science is like a religion to some people, who think it is the ultimate method for deciding what to do or what to think. But it is just a method, the results of which are determined to be right or wrong based on a consensus of experts who control peer review publications - experts whose own expertise was determined by what they themselves published. People who depart from the consensus of thought are described as unscientific. Science gave us chemotherapy. And psychiatry. And a few other delights of Western medicine which hardly work - if at all.	Deane F (8204)
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