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Thread ID: 101162	2009-07-03 07:33:00	Questions on Family Trust	Nomad (952)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
788558	2009-07-03 22:43:00	Yep I can understand it. In fairness I agree. I have found relationship property has been a hot topic and some people have been stressed about it as they didn't know about it. I have flatted for a good couple of years at uni, I don't really care about it, we get on and stuff with the folks. Now the thing is I am still at home living with the folks, working and saving for the deposit even if I could get a mortgage I would delay it cos not to pay rent / mortgage interest, as I am still single so I don't need a house to myself yet. Plus the housing marketing is plumenting. Even if it wasn't getting a house earlier and pay more interest may not be better off than delay the house and build on the deposit. So I can improve on that deposit sum. If I go for a mortgage with or without her then meet her (whatever), it might not be that fair ie., you put in a $100k deposit yourself and then you and her share the mortgage, you split, you may lose half the $100k you put in yourself. An agreement may help and who knows I have asked some work colleagues guys and gals and they are in agreement as that may be seen as fair. But maybe some may say, even if one does put out a substantial sum and if they split, in fairness and trust and good spirit, maybe that $100k should be split regardless.... I can see how a trust can be useful to minimise liability, to access public services, minimise tax etc. But if it is just money, if you really trust someone like a parent, instead of trust you could just give all the money to them into their accounts eh ...	Nomad (952)
788559	2009-07-03 23:06:00	Even if the Trust is formed prior to meeting that person if that person contributes to the mortgage the Trust may ineffective, since a Trust "cannot have the intention to prevent them to get the share of your relationship property" . Unless of course you paid the house yourself or that the house was fully paid off prior to meeting the partner . That is one of the main benefits of creating a trust so that someone else - anyone else - is prevented a share because it is not "your relationship property," it belongs to the trust . Make certain that the people who pay the mortgage are the only ones you would like to benefit from it . The house does not need to be fully paid off prior to installing your latest girlfriend . She only has a right to the trust if you allow her to have that right . You would be the trustee so you call the shots . That is the main reason we have a family trust . It makes no difference when the trust was formed . If your past or future girlfriend is not included in that trust then she cannot claim for assets or money that you do not own . When you are certain you have found the right girlfriend and marry, even, she cannot claim anything from that trust (even when you split) until you decide to include her in the trust and make her a trustee or beneficiary or both . We formed our trust primarily to keep our assets no matter what . If, for example, one of us needs to go into full time care and we did not have a trust, the government would insist that we sell our assets to pay for our care . They will only pay when we have only a few thousand left . No more assets and nothing left in the will for our children . Now that we have a trust we are secure and know that our children will have their inheritance . Once the trust is formed you should change your will - under advice of course - that points to the Memorandum of Wishes in the trust documents which is a type of will . It is easier, quicker and much cheaper to change the Memorandum of Wishes than it is to change your will . As far as a bank account is concerned - you open an account for the trust . Everything that you buy for the house is bought through the trust . The trust has it's own IRD number . Go to the library and borrow books on trusts by the trust expert, Ross Holmes . Once you have read the books, get into gear and form a trust now . Don't include anyone else but yourself and possibly your mum and/or dad . You can add trustees and beneficiaries later . When you are ready to form your trust, go to a trust expert, not just anyone . It will cost you about $5000 and is worth every penny . DO IT NOW!!!	Roscoe (6288)
788560	2009-07-03 23:29:00	Thanks Roscoe Yep, I see the benefits of lower tax, access to public services (personal poverty) et al. They may be muddy points. Still not sure: For most people if there is a mortgage, there is still a long way to pay it off, therefore naturally both names would be on that, therefore for argument sake (and maybe unfair) that you cannot just take the house yourself and plunk it in a trust without her knowing, wouldn't both of you need to sign that document, therefore I think there will be a (fair) split on that and if one did make a substantial payment prior to meeting her some may sign an opt out agreement noting this. Just some info from the Public Trust and it says, if you intentioning prevent them, the court may consider that as a invalid transaction, if the intentions cannot be proven the court may order other forms of compensation. Again for argument sake, for the Will. If you leave out key people, they can contest it because you may have failed in your moral responsibility (Family Protection Act).	Nomad (952)
788561	2009-07-03 23:59:00	We went down the route of a legal pre nuptial agreement so that SWMBO could protect her investment for her son it applied for the first 5 years we were together it has just run out this year and we don't need to renew it. It worked for us but would not work for everybody, we went to our lawyer who drew it all up for a reasonable cost.	gary67 (56)
788562	2009-07-04 00:40:00	My personal opinion on a pre-nuptial agreement is that you don't trust your future spouse, and if you don't trust her, then why marry? Surely marriage is based on trust? But things do go wrong, unfortunately . It has not always been beautiful at our place, but we work through it . I firmly believe that everyone should live together for a period before they marry . You then find out if you can stand each other before you make it legal . If not, no harm done . I see a trust as a better option . If it is set up before you meet your future spouse (how I hate that word 'partner') then you have the option of including her in the trust if she turns out to be a good girl . If things do not turn out as planned then no harm done . You are correct . You could not put your assets in a trust without the other half knowing . "Who owns the house?" would be one of the first questions you would be asked . That is why you need to have it in a trust before you meet her . No arguments there . I can't see why anyone would object to you setting up a trust with the intention of preventing someone - anyone - obtaining any part of the assets . That is exactly what we have done . That is the purpose of a trust - asset protection - from anyone and everyone including the government . The beneficiaries in our trust are our two children . One is engaged . Her future husband has no claim on the trust at all - now or in the future unless she - or we - decide to include him . At present we do not . Only the trust owns our assets . Not me . Not SWMBO . Not daughters . So no-one can claim anything from any of us because we don't own anything . Good, eh? Think of a trust as something that protects your assets from future undesirables - government included . Hopefully you have already been on the phone and started the ball rolling .	Roscoe (6288)
788563	2009-07-04 06:32:00	X3	CliveM (6007)
788564	2009-07-04 06:40:00	Ask Winston001, he's a lawyer. Trusts aren't always what people think they are........	pctek (84)
788565	2009-07-04 10:35:00	Ask Winston001, he's a lawyer . Trusts aren't always what people think they are . . . . . . . . So that's a valid reason not to have a trust?:illogical Most lawyers specilalise in some facet of law . There are many practitioners that specialise in trusts . You need to talk to them - not just any lawyer . Most politicians have family trusts . They know a good thing when they see it . Because trusts can protect your assets politicians will only fiddle with the law regarding trusts if it helps politicians, so you can be assured that trusts will be around for a long time and they will be good asset insurance . If you have assets worth over $500,000 you need to have a family trust set up before you retire . Once retired you may need full time care . You will have to sell your assets to pay for your care . Only when you have disposed of all your assets will the government step in . If you are asset poor - when your assets are tied up in a family trust - then the government will pay and your children will inherit your assets . If you find out all you can about family trusts - look for books by Ross Holmes, best selling author and trust lawyer - and only when you have all the facts, should you then proceed . Most people work hard for 40 years or so, paying taxes and buying assets that they would like to keep and then pass onto their children . Why, then, would you want to sell you assets to raise the money to look after yourself in old age when, with a well set up family trust, you can get back some of the thousands of dollars you have paid in taxes . Many trusts are not set up as part of an estate plan with a strategy and a method of achieving that strategy . Just as business plans and investment plans without a strategy will fail to achieve the desired objective, so do trusts formed without an estate planning strategy . You need to learn how to avoid these pitfalls by asking the right people . If a trust is established and administered genuinely, as part of a comprehensive estate plan, it will assist you to achieve your objectives and prosper . I know of a lovely old lady - in her 80s - that has had to go into a rest home . Her house is on the market to pay for her care . Unless she dies very shortly, there will be no estate left for her family . Fortunately, for her, she is quite healthy and should live close to 100 . The family will receive nothing! Don't listen to anyone, who is not an expert on trusts, that might try to turn you against forming a family trust . Find out all you need to know and form your family trust now . You will be thankful you did . DO IT NOW!!!	Roscoe (6288)
788566	2009-07-04 11:55:00	Yep I am working towards that 100k house deposit, still a way to go ... Yep I understand the gifting stuff, I have read it before but the visit to update my Will they reminded me. I got that library book out :D I am still a bit vague re: the house you share to live in. I mean if you have the house and the trust set up before you meet her. Then she comes in and shares the mortgage, any intelligent person would want their name on that property as well and if it is in a trust, they would want to benefit from that also. Therefore the trust deed would need to be adjusted right ....? Their first question would be, why isn't my name on the house or why am I not on the trust. Yep, my folks know someone who was in hospital care but not sure on the house, he has rental properties, I think it took or is still taking funds out of his accounts to fund hospital treatment, he may have a enduring power of attorney for others to care for him while he is not in a position to authoritatively decide, or who knows maybe the court appointed someone to be in position....	Nomad (952)
788567	2009-07-04 12:04:00	Of course the agreement but I dunno, maybe not many people would sign that. I mean that to some people may mean an insult, don't you trust me, if you don't trust me, let's just split and go separate ways. If that house was a inheritance and it had other goals I can understand but if the partner is paying the mortgage as well .... hmm....... If they don't sign such a document, then they aren't the person for you. If they are intelligent, then they would know that it is not a slight on them, but you are just showing that you want to protect both of them by contracting out of the relationship law. That is a law that sucks anyway, and it is a typical labour law. When you get into a relationship, you have to put a lot of faith in that person, and you don't usually know anything about their past. This is unlike when you buy a house, where you can puchase it with a Due Diligence clause, where you can do your research on the history. Relationships are probably the only thing you do in your life where there is no Due Diligence , so you have to be very very careful.	robbyp (2751)
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