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Thread ID: 101282	2009-07-08 05:31:00	50hz / 60hz question	Tony (4941)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
790017	2009-07-08 05:31:00	A friend of mine is a model railway enthusiast and has just imported a couple of locomotives from the USA. He has found that some of the fancy functions (whistle, bell, lights, smoke) are only working erratically or not at all, and we wonder if maybe that the reason is the difference in electrical frequency between US and NZ. The trains run on 18v AC. So the questions are: Does this sound likely? What can we do about it? Is there some sort of converter we can put into the system (the frequency equivalent of a 240/110v transformer)? Could the fact that the power is going through a transformer be having any effect? I am neither an electrical person or a model train person, so I have no idea. Any suggestions will be gratefully received.	Tony (4941)
790018	2009-07-08 09:16:00	You can get transformers for pretty much every size imaginable so best bet would be to get one rated at whatever the train requires and wire in a pot (or whatever the thing that adjusts speed is called) A hobby shop would probaly have an adapter possibly	hueybot3000 (3646)
790019	2009-07-08 09:31:00	You can get transformers for pretty much every size imaginable so best bet would be to get one rated at whatever the train requires and wire in a pot (or whatever the thing that adjusts speed is called) A hobby shop would probaly have an adapter possibly I think Tony has got his voltage sorted already. I assume you are using either a 230->115 transformer OR a separate 18V transformer that can run off 230V. As for frequency, I really don't think that could be your problem unforuntately. 60Hz vs 50Hz can make clocks and motors run at the wrong speed, but control circuitry runs from regulated DC, and lighting doesn't care about frequency. The only way to convert 50Hz to 60Hz would be to use a transformer to get 12V DC and run it through an American-made inverter which would output 110V 60Hz. Transformers don't change frequencies. I think you need to verify that the voltage going into the train is actually correct. If you have a multimeter it will tell you - if not, get one for $11 at DSE or Jaycar.	george12 (7)
790020	2009-07-08 09:42:00	You can get transformers for pretty much every size imaginable so best bet would be to get one rated at whatever the train requires and wire in a pot (or whatever the thing that adjusts speed is called) A hobby shop would probably have an adapter possibly Sorry, but that's more than a little bit wide of the mark! The presumed problem is one of frequency, not voltage and that is a function of our generating system. A change of frequency can only be obtained by using a mechanical device (genemotor) or an electronic converter which would be a bit costly. A poor-man's answer might be to get a US full time on-line UPS, which should have a 60Hz output, and run it from a 230-115 volt stepdown transformer. Plug your train power supply into the UPS output and away you go. Of course getting a suitable UPS might be a problem, though who knows, some locally sold products may have a 50Hz/60Hz switch. However, I'm not sure that the trains would be that critical of frequency anyway, presuming that the bells and whistles are powered by a DC system within the locomotive. Maybe you just have a crook choochoo train. Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
790021	2009-07-08 09:49:00	It is probably all to do with metrics and coming from an upside down Northern Hemisphere source. You will have to retrain it.	R2x1 (4628)
790022	2009-07-08 10:02:00	From what I can gather with trains the frequency only really effects the smoothness of operation, like less stuttering at slow speeds. I cant understand how that would affect all the other fancy stuff though. And it all must run on the same power cos it runs through the tracks, and it wouldnt be practical really to have a converter in the train just for a whistle?	hueybot3000 (3646)
790023	2009-07-08 10:06:00	I don't think it is a "crook choochoo train" :) as there are in fact two separate locomotives, and they both exhibit the same symptoms. I don't know exactly what my friend's setup is, but Ithink he has NZ 230v -> transformer to 110V -> american controller that came with the rest of the kit which converts to 18v - all AC. The only thing that is different is the frequency. He is running it on his own rails, so to eliminate all the variables, we set up the track that came with the set, and the same thing happened. I think there are some quite fancy electronics in the trains, which is what made me think that frequency could be a factor. I've also emailed the US supplier to see if they have any suggestions.	Tony (4941)
790024	2009-07-08 10:27:00	Sounds to me like correcting a frequency wold be an expensive option (even using Billy T's poor mans version), so I'd be inclined to eliminate things that aren't going to cost you a lot of money. I'd start with the transformer. I'm assuming that you used the same transformer for all of your tests? I have a 230v-18v AC transformer if you want to borrow it to eliminate that from your equation?	pine-o-cleen (2955)
790025	2009-07-08 10:51:00	I don't know exactly what my friend's setup is, but I think he has NZ 230v -> transformer to 110V -> american controller that came with the rest of the kit which converts to 18v - all AC. The only thing that is different is the frequency. He is running it on his own rails, so to eliminate all the variables, we set up the track that came with the set, and the same thing happened. I think there are some quite fancy electronics in the trains, which is what made me think that frequency could be a factor. I've also emailed the US supplier to see if they have any suggestions. It is possible that they use the supply voltage as a frequency reference, I've seen that in somewhat older electronics. A lot of domestic US stuff is surprisingly retro when you get into it, so 50Hz may give some frequency issues or clocking faults. Being slower I would have expected it to be OK, but who knows? The internals may be state of the ark! Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
790026	2009-07-08 11:07:00	Sounds to me like correcting a frequency wold be an expensive option (even using Billy T's poor mans version), so I'd be inclined to eliminate things that aren't going to cost you a lot of money . I'd start with the transformer . I'm assuming that you used the same transformer for all of your tests? I have a 230v-18v AC transformer if you want to borrow it to eliminate that from your equation?Yes, we did use the same transformer . Thanks for the offer, but I think the conversion to 18v happens in the controller, so it probably expects 110/115v input . The sorts of behaviours that were being exhibited were: Press the whistle button on the controller - nothing happens - should give one long whistle . Press the bell button - the bell sounds continuously . The smoke feature only appears to work erratically . At my friend's suggestion we reversed the polarity of the connections from the controller to the track (why? - don't know) . Then: Bell didn't work . Whistle did work, but the train slowed almost to a dead stop before the whistle sounded . I have to say that my friend's setup is incredibly (to my eyes) complicated, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was something else that was causing the problems .	Tony (4941)
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