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Thread ID: 102146	2009-08-08 12:11:00	Telethon	Cheezels (14809)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
799590	2009-08-09 09:24:00	How does an adult working as a drainlayer who sees someone who is doing 0% of the work, and being paid 80% of their salary, feel? That makes no sense at all. You can do better than that. Why should you assume someone who is set a job they are capable of doing would do 0% work ? I said doing the same work.	Terry Porritt (14)
799591	2009-08-09 09:31:00	Dude, that's pretty BS. This isn't about people who have been made redundant and can't afford the basics of life- WINZ will step in there. This is about families who don't care about where their money goes or if their kids are brought up properly and have a decent upbringing. They will happily spend money on alcohol, drugs and cigarettes and fancy cars but not for stuff they need. So before you go on a sanctimonious rant about non-Kiwi's (whoops, too late for you I guess), think about it for a second and the fact that we already pay astronomical taxes to cover stuff like this. I bet none of those people work 40-60 hours a week doing 2 or more jobs to feed and house their families, they just want a handout for nothing all the time. You obviously have no experience or exposure to this sort of thing. It is real and it is happening around us. However, if it makes you feel better to sit back and criticise those trying to make a difference then go ahead. Do you know anyone who has been made redundant? Do you know people who have been on the benefit for longer than they haven't for the past 5 years, not through choice? Do you know people who are genuinely trying but simply cannot make ends meet? Do you know anyone made redundant the day before they started their new job? Do you know anyone in the front line having to deal with unfed barefoot children being dropped off at school before sunrise because the folks are off to work? Do you even know the criteria for claiming the redundancy benefit? Like I said, it is real and a lot of people are hurting right now. Most often this is not through choice. How this somehow translates into an argument that we shouldn't be giving some kids a chance is simply beyond me. The point still stands that the kids have no choice in this, but if you want to be uncharitable then who am I to disagree with your choices? Just wait for the day when you don't have a choice. Hopefully Kiwis will be as charitable towards you as they have been to others. Hopefully you won't be met with sweeping statements like "happily spend money on alcohol, drugs and cigarettes and fancy cars" and "I bet none of those people work 40-60 hours a week". Good luck to you!	andrew93 (249)
799592	2009-08-09 09:32:00	That makes no sense at all. You can do better than that. Why should you assume someone who is set a job they are capable of doing would do 0% work ? I said doing the same work. Person A - the drainlayer, working hard to feed his family. Person B - a welfare recipient, not working, paid equivalent of 80% of Person A's wages. If we want to talk about the soul, then let's look at Person A's, and how they feel about someone being given for doing nothing, while they work long hours in a physical job to feed their family.	somebody (208)
799593	2009-08-09 09:54:00	Person A - the drainlayer, working hard to feed his family. Person B - a welfare recipient, not working, paid equivalent of 80% of Person A's wages. If we want to talk about the soul, then let's look at Person A's, and how they feel about someone being given for doing nothing, while they work long hours in a physical job to feed their family. :) We are talking at cross-purposes, I was refering to working for the dole, comparing two blokes doing exactly the same job, one getting full rate, one getting the dole. Comparing how a worker feels about someone getting the dole for no work is a different issue. Anyway just think back to around 1991 when there was an average of 10% unemployment, 19% of the young, about 25-30% of Maori/Pacific Islanders. www.socialreport.msd.govt.nz It is not an easy time being unemployed, though no doubt there will be those that make a profession of it. Sue Bradford was one of those, professionally unemployed one might say !	Terry Porritt (14)
799594	2009-08-09 10:06:00	:) We are talking at cross-purposes, I was refering to working for the dole, comparing two blokes doing exactly the same job, one getting full rate, one getting the dole. Comparing how a worker feels about someone getting the dole for no work is a different issue. The point I was trying to make (and didn't make very well - it's been a long day) was that as a society, we are constantly worrying about how people feel - the problem is, we're worrying about the wrong people. We should stop worrying about how people who are receiving taxpayer handouts feel, and worry about the taxpayer who's working hard, and paying the taxes that support our welfare system. So what if the welfare recipient doing drain laying work feels undervalued - surely it's better have them feel undervalued, than have the hard working taxpayer feel like they are being ripped off, and discouraged from working hard.	somebody (208)
799595	2009-08-09 10:08:00	<snip> Sue Bradford was one of those, professionally unemployed one might say ! With her track record thus far in Parliament, I would prefer to still be paying her the dole than the outrageous amount she gets for being an interfering busybody with bugger-all common sense!!! EDIT: Just remembered she lost her seat last time. How sad!	johcar (6283)
799596	2009-08-09 10:16:00	Interesting reactions on this thread . I donated, mostly because I don't think children should suffer because of the parents they never got to choose . We can all reason that many could do with parental training and management skills and you would be right, but that is not the fault of the children . Years ago I worked as a voluntary budget advisor and saw things that made me shake my head in disbelief . Some had no idea how to manage . Yes, I'm happy to say we had some success stories . At least we also got to see some New Zealand talent we probably wouldn't have otherwise ever got to see on our screens .	Marnie (4574)
799597	2009-08-09 10:21:00	Years ago I worked as a voluntary budget advisor and saw things that made me shake my head in disbelief. Some had no idea how to manage. Yes, I'm happy to say we had some success stories. Wow - that's great to hear. Hopefully there are more people out there providing those sort of services (surely an organisation like WINZ employs people to offer budgetary advice??).	somebody (208)
799598	2009-08-09 11:34:00	Wow - that's great to hear. Hopefully there are more people out there providing those sort of services (surely an organisation like WINZ employs people to offer budgetary advice??). WINZ does not actively get employment for those that are seeking employment. I went into WINZ two weeks ago to update my Gold card and found the only notices up for employment were from Seek. WINZ may help you to get retrained in the event I needed to know how to dig a ditch. Usually I use a spade but I may need a tracked vehicle license in case an employer needs a faster ditch than what I could dig by hand. But then you would need to know how to drive the vehicle and be efficient doing the same. WINZ would refer you to other places like the citizens advice bureau for budgeting skills. Plunket for advice on rearing children except that is not Gov't funded. St Johns, Salvation Army, various foundations like Cancer research, Heart Foundation etc are funded only by donation or Lottery Grants or the proceeds from Poker machines. So I have to ask what does Central Government supply in the way of services and what does local Government do for you as a person or family or whanua for what it costs the taxpayer in general. I see openings of whatever and the Maori have to jump in and do a powhiri or a taniwha removal all of which cost the taxpayer including me. I worked since I was 15 years old. The last 13 years I worked for the same employer and finished there in Dec 2008. I get superannuation now and pay tax on that as well. I wonder what it cost the taxpayers for John Key to attend Telethon on his 48th birthday and how much he donated out of his own pocket. When GST 12.5% was invented it was supposed to reduce sales tax because we had same at one time. Schools just do the curriculum as it stands or as it changes from time to time. The goal posts move just as I drop kick. Schools should be teaching life skills such as cooking, woodwork, parenting, book keeping, english, maths, history, geography and social studies. More importantly, with newer technology, today the people need to be taught how to research and what questions to ask. Other questions I have for all of you that may be bothered to reply. How many of you voted in the November 2008 general election? How many of you have voted in your local council elections last time they had one? How many of you have voted in the revent referendum which closes on the 21st Aug 2009? To add another 2 cents worth we have a large number of members who have joined PressF1 but we only have a small percentage who post on a regular basis.	Sweep (90)
799599	2009-08-09 11:49:00	This thread has gone way off topic the thread says telethon not WINZ and moan.	Hitech (9024)
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