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| Thread ID: 103605 | 2009-09-29 19:31:00 | Court justice? | kenj (9738) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 815307 | 2009-09-30 04:06:00 | You should learn to read then you wouldn't spend so much time knocking down arguments I never made in the first place. Someone did break into my house, you should read what I wrote not what you think I wrote. It is not a crime to express a different view than you. and do you dispute the Sensible Sentencing trust learnt its support to a murderer? Well sorry they did, I can't change the hypocrisy of that organisation just to make you feel better. My comments were in regard to what you said in others threads in the past. And you will see that I agreed with your notion that he should have had 5 years. You opened the can of worms by attacking the SST. They are supporting a man who was defending his property, and here we are talking about a man who beat someone to death for a accident. Surely you cannot see any comparison between the two? Tell me, the guy who broke into your house, was he ever caught? If so what did he get? Community service? When the civil authorities fail to bring us justice, what can we do but hate matters into our own hands? The government does not do, nor listen to us. They re-victimize the victims and let the perpetrators walk with a slap on the wrists. They hold meaningless referendums, waste our money and spit it back into our faces. I'm frustrated. So many promises, all of them broken. And in the end, no one actually gives a toss. It's all about political correctness, and this is why in a few years this country will be past redemption. It wasn't always like this, but it will only get worse. And yes, I did take my frustration on you and I am sorry for that. But how is it there always more sympathy for the criminal? Why do they deserve a better life in prison than I, a law abiding citizen, get when I work my ass off for it? It never stops. When the 3 strikes bill talks were going on, most people were on about human rights of these people. What about my rights? We have all too many laws but very little justice. The world is an ugly place, and it gets uglier every day. Every sentence that is light leads us one day closer to anarchy. When murders will mean nothing, we will not be safe in our own homes (are we even now?). All this will pale in comparison to what this will lead to. |
Cato (6936) | ||
| 815308 | 2009-09-30 04:09:00 | Why should they be of any relevance?, he stole someone's child ***.Burn him at the stake. How ironic. It is the same judge in both instances. |
Cato (6936) | ||
| 815309 | 2009-09-30 05:18:00 | My comments were in regard to what you said in others threads in the past . And you will see that I agreed with your notion that he should have had 5 years . You opened the can of worms by attacking the SST . They are supporting a man who was defending his property, and here we are talking about a man who beat someone to death for a accident . Surely you cannot see any comparison between the two? Tell me, the guy who broke into your house, was he ever caught? If so what did he get? Community service? When the civil authorities fail to bring us justice, what can we do but hate matters into our own hands? The government does not do, nor listen to us . They re-victimize the victims and let the perpetrators walk with a slap on the wrists . They hold meaningless referendums, waste our money and spit it back into our faces . I'm frustrated . So many promises, all of them broken . And in the end, no one actually gives a toss . It's all about political correctness, and this is why in a few years this country will be past redemption . It wasn't always like this, but it will only get worse . And yes, I did take my frustration on you and I am sorry for that . But how is it there always more sympathy for the criminal? Why do they deserve a better life in prison than I, a law abiding citizen, get when I work my ass off for it? It never stops . When the 3 strikes bill talks were going on, most people were on about human rights of these people . What about my rights? We have all too many laws but very little justice . The world is an ugly place, and it gets uglier every day . Every sentence that is light leads us one day closer to anarchy . When murders will mean nothing, we will not be safe in our own homes (are we even now?) . All this will pale in comparison to what this will lead to . Firstly I suggested ten years, twice as long as you so therefore everything you said after that about soft sentences applies to you more than me . I've rarely said what a good sentence for anything would be, so not sure how you work out that I'd be soft on crime . Secondly, The SST supported man who ran after youths with a knife and then stabbed one to death . In this case, the man pushed the victim over and he died because he hit is head on the pavement . If you stab someone with a knife you intend to really hurt them, probably trying to kill them . If you punch someone or push them, you certainly have a big anger problem but you may not be trying to kill them even if that is the end result . Is one worse than the other, probably not although I'd give it to the guy with the knife by a whisker . Surely you're not justifying the attack of a youth with a knife? I'm assume your "hate matters" was a Freudian slip? I explained what happened to the guy who broke into my house . The thing you worry about most is them coming back, as they so often do . The Burglary Squad came over and spent half a day on site taking photos and fingerprints, they did a really good job . Guys were caught less than a week later, went through Youth Court and a Family Group conference . Can't talk about the specifics as would break the law to do so, but they got Community Service and Reparation and several conditions, and although it took a year a two I got my money back (I didn't claim insurance but I could have) . Biggest plus of the process for me is that Victims got to have their say (many were understandably very angry) to the offender, always take up the offer to see the offender if it is made, it may not help them but it will help you . There has been a lot of research that shows victims tend to be more lenient than the general public though, so once you vent your anger you tend to look at it more practically . As far as if a violent crime happened to your family, your initial reaction would be to want to kill someone . Then the Police would tell you that you'd be no good to your family in jail yourself, and if you were to do the best for your family you'd be to put your energy into supporting them . The sentence the offender gets actually makes no difference to how well you will recover from crime . With any crime you either make yourself a victim or you get on and rebuild your life as best you can . Obviously the worse the crime the harder it is, but it appears that people who forgive do a lot better in recovering than people who hold on to the bitterness . PS The whole revictimise theory is American BS . |
Twelvevolts (5457) | ||
| 815310 | 2009-09-30 06:13:00 | Hanging on suspicion is quiet and energy efficient. | R2x1 (4628) | ||
| 815311 | 2009-09-30 06:28:00 | Hanging on suspicion is quiet and energy efficient. Is likely to appeal to the Green party then. |
Twelvevolts (5457) | ||
| 815312 | 2009-09-30 17:54:00 | I agree with Sensible Sentencing's ideas. But I wonder what we have to do to get govt to force judges to give tougher sentences ? The only way to stop violence like that Islander thug on the old Indian guy, is to send a message, that if you behave like that in NZ you will go away for a LONG time. No questions. And we have to stop calling it Road Rage as if it is some kind of joke. It was assault ! Build more prisons - yes if we need to - because the long term result will be that we are all safer and that people will then get the message that we will not tolerate crime, especially violent crime. So the prison pop will then go down. |
Digby (677) | ||
| 815313 | 2009-09-30 18:05:00 | Firstly I suggested ten years, twice as long as you so therefore everything you said after that about soft sentences applies to you more than me . I've rarely said what a good sentence for anything would be, so not sure how you work out that I'd be soft on crime . Sorry, I meant 10 not 5 . I'm assume your "hate matters" was a Freudian slip? Yes . Take matters . I explained what happened to the guy who broke into my house . The thing you worry about most is them coming back, as they so often do . The Burglary Squad came over and spent half a day on site taking photos and fingerprints, they did a really good job . Guys were caught less than a week later, went through Youth Court and a Family Group conference . Can't talk about the specifics as would break the law to do so, but they got Community Service and Reparation and several conditions, and although it took a year a two I got my money back (I didn't claim insurance but I could have) . Do you think this guy will re-offend? Or did he learn his lesson? |
Cato (6936) | ||
| 815314 | 2009-09-30 19:48:00 | I agree with Sensible Sentencing's ideas. But I wonder what we have to do to get govt to force judges to give tougher sentences ? The only way to stop violence like that Islander thug on the old Indian guy, is to send a message, that if you behave like that in NZ you will go away for a LONG time. No questions. And we have to stop calling it Road Rage as if it is some kind of joke. It was assault ! Build more prisons - yes if we need to - because the long term result will be that we are all safer and that people will then get the message that we will not tolerate crime, especially violent crime. So the prison pop will then go down. Very good post Digo. |
Cicero (40) | ||
| 815315 | 2009-09-30 20:51:00 | I agree with Sensible Sentencing's ideas . But I wonder what we have to do to get govt to force judges to give tougher sentences ? The only way to stop violence like that Islander thug on the old Indian guy, is to send a message, that if you behave like that in NZ you will go away for a LONG time . No questions . And we have to stop calling it Road Rage as if it is some kind of joke . It was assault ! Build more prisons - yes if we need to - because the long term result will be that we are all safer and that people will then get the message that we will not tolerate crime, especially violent crime . So the prison pop will then go down . Judges don't just make up sentences themselves, seems to be a common misconception . They have a small amount of leeway to take some factors into consideration, they can't just go out and give someone the maximum penalty like appears to be assumed by many posters here . We have the toughest penalties for violent offences we've had in the last thirty years right now, the minimum non-parole was set at seven years for everyone until relatively recently . Hasn't made any difference as far as I can tell, although if anything it seems to be worse . Deterrence clearly doesn't work, so we're faced with building a lot more prisons at huge cost as the prison population will not go down due to stiffer sentences, it will clearly go up . I understand why SST was set up, but when they support a person who knifes someone, you have to say they aren't exactly against violent crime . The provocation of spray painting hardly justifies stabbing someone to death, and if it does then we'd better revisit the provocation law again . Crime isn't particularly bad in New Zealand, we live in a relatively safe country compared to say that United States . Fear of crime is higher here than is justified by the actual crime that occurs, something to do with the small size of the country and the media I suspect . |
Twelvevolts (5457) | ||
| 815316 | 2009-10-01 01:50:00 | Sorry Twelvevolts, but here is yet another one!!!! home.nzcity.co.nz Ken :waughh::waughh::mad::mad: |
kenj (9738) | ||
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