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Thread ID: 103574	2009-09-28 17:45:00	Now that Bill English is paying it back	Digby (677)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
814860	2009-09-28 21:14:00	And the fact that the majority of the PUBLIC voted "No" in the referendum says what? Don't get me started on the BS about the "wording" of it ... Stuff democracy, Metla for president, he'd clean up this country ;)	Chilling_Silence (9)
814861	2009-09-28 21:27:00	Now English has paid the money back which he was entitled to its end of story. He just didnt have the moral high ground asking us peons to tighten our belts while he was slurping from the public trough. So if thieves pay back what they stole they should be let go? I'm not commenting on the specifics of this case, but simply paying back money when you get caught doesn't absolve you of all wrongdoing.	shermo (12739)
814862	2009-09-28 21:27:00	And the fact that the majority of the PUBLIC voted "No" in the referendum says what? Don't get me started on the BS about the "wording" of it ... Stuff democracy, Metla for president, he'd clean up this country ;) Clearly it has escaped you we don't pass laws by referendum in this country, although the nut cases who wasted $9 million on the last referendum have finally figured that out and want to spend another nine million on another vote to make them binding. What they haven't figured out is it is another nine million down the drain. I don't mind these silly referendum providing the people who want them pay the full costs of them, user pays is the way it should be.	Twelvevolts (5457)
814863	2009-09-28 21:29:00	How about Sue Bradford pays instead? Sounds good to me!	Chilling_Silence (9)
814864	2009-09-28 22:09:00	Did they really ? * Ancient Greek democracy had a number of practices which made it very different from modern democratic systems. * Elections were regarded as likely to favour the most well-known, usually the richest and best-educated, thus resulting in oligarchy. So citizens were selected for public office by lotteries, in order to increase the chances of ordinary, poor citizens being successful. * There were some votes to posts which required special expertise, for example military leadership. However, the corollary was severe punishment for inadequate performance by those elected, often death. * There were also votes for de-selection through the annual possibility of an 'ostracism', in which citizens could write down any name and the 'winner' was sent into exile for ten years, effectively ending their political career. So holding public office in an ancient Greek democracy was a very different thing from being an elected representative today, and the democratic way to choose citizens to serve the community by holding public office was the use of a lottery system: the equivalent of pulling names out of a hat, though actually the Greeks did not use hats and pieces of paper but pots full of beans or sometimes quite complicated mechanical allotment machines. The lottery was thought to maximise the chances of ordinary poor citizens getting chosen, and indeed was designed to encourage them to volunteer, to put their names forward for consideration. The lottery also emphasised randomness: any citizen, it was implied, could hold the relevant office and perform it satisfactorily without having any special economic, educational or genetic qualifications. Provided, that is, you were adult, male, free and, in some states, born in legal wedlock: becoming a citizen in ancient Greece was by no means a free-for-all. Actually, though, in practice not even the democratic Athenians in the fifth century BCE went quite the whole hog. Even they recognised that some offices - military and financial ones - did require special and specialist expertise. So, for those they made an exception to their general, ideologically-driven rule, and held elections. These took place once a year, in public assembly, and votes were registered by the raising of the right hand and were counted by designated tellers. The corollary of this conscious, deliberate exception was that the people came down extremely hard on elected officials who were deemed in some way to have failed them, by losing a key battle as a general, say, or embezzling public funds as a sacred treasurer. For such high crimes and misdemeanours the penalty could all too often be death.	pctek (84)
814865	2009-09-28 22:09:00	I'd like to see the tree shaken to loosen up some more pay-backs - such as from those low-lifes who rent out their own homes to fellow bludgers while themselves taking tax-payers' monies to rent yet another (larger) house.	Scouse (83)
814866	2009-09-28 22:29:00	Clearly it has escaped you we don't pass laws by referendum in this country, although the nut cases who wasted $9 million on the last referendum have finally figured that out and want to spend another nine million on another vote to make them binding . What they haven't figured out is it is another nine million down the drain . I don't mind these silly referendum providing the people who want them pay the full costs of them, user pays is the way it should be . Ahem . . . on Post #9 you were questioning "I wonder what system you'd prefer to democracy?" 1 . representation of people: the right to a form of government in which power is invested in the people as a whole, usually exercised on their behalf by elected representatives 2 . democratic nation: a country with a democratically elected government 3 . democratic system of government: a system of government based on the principle of majority decision-making 4 . control of organization by members: the control of an organization by its members, who have a right to participate in decision-making processes I don't necessarily agree with all the referendums that have been put to Joe Public . I do however, have a problem with political parties that ignore the wishes of the people for their own ends . Unfortunately, only the law is "Black & White" - emotions have no place in this country's political or judicial system . This is patently obvious by some of the stupid PC decisions made in NZ over the years . I am waiting for the day when a person who has been convicted of an horrendous crime is granted an appeal against the length of sentence and a judge in all his/her wisdom gives the bastard another 5 years instead of shortening the prison term . Then, I will start believing in justice and democracy . Ken	kenj (9738)
814867	2009-09-28 23:15:00	The latter has happend in this country some time back. The Court tacked on some more. I will check this later.	Sweep (90)
814868	2009-09-28 23:16:00	A prime example!! He killed the man. The fact that he was 78 would have contributed to his death. That is totally irrelevant. I just hope some hoon doesn't look at me and think..."I'll beat this old fellow up, if he dies, so what? I'll only get 3 years like that O'Brien fella in Auckland got" home.nzcity.co.nz (Sweep... I had an idea that had happened, but could not remember it) Ken	kenj (9738)
814869	2009-09-28 23:31:00	And the fact that the majority of the PUBLIC voted "No" in the referendum says what? Don't get me started on the BS about the "wording" of it ... Stuff democracy, Metla for president, he'd clean up this country ;) Yeah send the GG back to pomgolia, form a republic with a constitution thats cool Bhutan has a happiness quota, US right to bear arms etc. Suspend the constitution for 5 years give Metla the presidency with emergency powers and start sorting stuff out.	prefect (6291)
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