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Thread ID: 105686	2009-12-10 21:45:00	See What Youse Miss Living Below The Equator?	SurferJoe46 (51)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
838559	2009-12-10 21:45:00	It consisted initially of a green beam of light similar in color to the aurora with a mysterious rotating spiral at one end. This spiral then got bigger and bigger until it turned into a huge halo in the sky with the green beam extending down to Earth. Russia Today's video clip about the sightings, posted to YouTube (www.youtube.com), was headlined "UFO show in Norway sky welcomes Obama for Nobel Prize ceremony." The effect looks almost too good to be real, and tabloids floated some out-of-this-world suggestions for its cause - such as a previously unknown manifestation of the Northern Lights, a black hole or a "Stargate" to another dimension. A former UFO analyst for the British Ministry of Defense, Nick Pope, was mystified by the flare-up. "It's ironic that something like this should happen the very week after the [Ministry of Defense] terminated its UFO project," he told The Sun. "It just goes to show how wrong that decision was." When Armageddon starts, the northern half will know first! (cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com)	SurferJoe46 (51)
838560	2009-12-10 22:10:00	Failed missile. :)	Trev (427)
838561	2009-12-10 22:18:00	ET -- Phone Home :D	wainuitech (129)
838562	2009-12-11 00:52:00	Submarine jettisoning garbage. Win 7 minor glitch. Santa re-entry. (Hint: pick the least likely)	R2x1 (4628)
838563	2009-12-11 07:51:00	Santa re-entry. (Hint: pick the least likely) Done. :cool:	pcuser42 (130)
838564	2009-12-11 16:24:00	This is showing on tv here and the spirals in the corona are being paralleled with the spin/exhaust of an out of control rocket that the Russians launched and went crazy . OK - but that doesn't explain the view of the spirals being multi-armed and proceeding the center of the "return" glow in the atmosphere . I'm not buying that explanation at all . It's just not the same . I've seen space shot re-entries - failures and successful launches from Vandenberg AFB in North Central California when the second stage return burns up and it's NOTHING like this looks at all . We used to see several a year before these secret launches moved further inland and out of the public's eye view . After a while they got pretty common to see and nobody called the police or the UFO Project Blue Book reporting places to say anything about it . Moon man sightings also increased treblefold every time one of these re-entries happened, so maybe the Air Force decided to lessen the impact on the populace - not!	SurferJoe46 (51)
838565	2009-12-11 17:52:00	From my next door neighbour,a metallurgist . That may, or may not, be true but the writer has utterly failed to place his remarks in the situation at that time . Very briefly (there are many publications that are available on this topic), the aircraft, if my memory serves me correctly was designed and built and flown specifically to compete in an air race in France several years before the start of WW2 . When the war started the British forces had only very recently (under the threat of war) received sufficient funds from the government to replace aircraft let alone have the time and funds to research, design test and build a fighter aircraft that was able to even compete at all with the German fighters, bombers etc that were already prepared for war (in obvious breach of the treaty conditions imposed after WW1) and long before the British Government was brought to the realisation that it could not be avoided and that its treaty partners had neither the ability or the desire to stand with Britain against the well-prepared Third Reich . Most of the British airforce at that time was equipped with aircraft little better than those employed in WW1, with the exception of few Hurricanes . The Reich had prepared to attack the British Isles using aircraft to subdue it and its people by carpet bombing centres of (civilian) populationand also disable its fleet (which was almost as ancient) . In these crisis conditions the approach was to speed up production of Hurricanes and seek as an emergency solution a faster fighter . The design of the Vickers Supramarine Spitfire was hurriedly modified to enable the mounting of guns etc and early versions were rapidly modified again and again as problems emerged . Each change (for example much more powerful engines, different propellers, skins, weaponry etc . , brought with it new problems of course . The design may well have been inadequate, but it was all that was available, few allies were in any better situation (Canada, Australia, New Zealand being the main ones that came forward to help) . The USA of course was internally politically prevented from assisting until later . For the first years of the war the British Airforce was seen as the main protector of the British Isles, its ships fared badly, as did its airforce until after the crisis later described as the "Battle of Britain" when the tide of war turned . To further put this situation in focus there was period when the average "fighting life" of a Spitfire and its pilot, for many reasons not entirely our "poor alloys, construction and design techniques and use of skin fasteners that also failed from poor alloys and irresponsibly bad quality control" was about two hours . The effort to replace them (both aircraft and pilots) was superhuman, the parts and aircarft were made in dispersed centres all around Britain although for obvious reasons some had to be located naer centres of certain skills . One of the Spitfire assembly plants, for example was located just outside Birmingham (which was being heavily bombed through 1940 and onwards) in a suburb called "Castle Bromwich" . Final testing and inspection was the responsibility of a few very brave test pilots, flying long hours and each tgest flight was of quite short duration . Even fuel for anything other than actual combat was in short supply . Raw materials of all sorts were simply not able to imported in the quantities needed . Scrap metal had to be found and recycled as quickly as possible, as witness the cutting down of all steel and iron railings for scrap despite a small quantity of steel beinfg availbale form pre-war steel plants in the North of England . Germany for a time almost brought Britain to its knees by strarvation owing to its large fleet of sunbmarinesand during one period the total foodstuffs ran down to only a few days supply, despite heroic efforts to grow more food, winters were hard . The war efforts on all fronts were desperate indeed . We were able to buy a few old ships from neutral countries (including the USA) as almost the sole outside help to alleviate this situation . The USA later provided "lease lend" shipping from a magnificent effort of building "Liberty" ships faster than ships had ever been built before . Unfortunately one cannot resist adding they had their own defects of design, materials and construction (look up "brittle fracture" for example) so the British were not alone, but possibly had more excuse given the circumstances . Lease lend was not approved until 1941 when aircraft and many other weapons of war were able to be purchased from the USA by borrowing the money from the USA . It has to be said that they did not get most of it back from any of the lease-lend partners (Britain, France and the Soviet Union) . However, I stray from the topic (in order to convey the flavour of the times) . Wikipedia has this to say about the Mark VII Spitfire "One intriguing feature of the Spitfire story is that the two most important versions introduced during the war, the Mk V and the Mk IX, were both seen as interim designs, produced to fill a gap while more heavily modified and theoretically more advanced versions entered production . The Mk VII (pressurised) and Mk VIII (unpressurised) Spitfires were intended to replace the Mk V . The Mk VII used the closely related Merlin 61 (1,300hp at 23,000ft), 64 (1,450hp at 21,000ft) and 71 (1,700hp at 18,000) engines as they appeared . The Merlin 61 was the first two-speed two-stage supercharged engine used in the Spitfire – the two stage supercharger improved performance at high altitude . The new engines required a new cooling system, one result of which was that the Mk VII had an air scoop on each wing, giving it a more symmetrical appearance than earlier Spitfires . The length of the fuselage was increased to 31ft 3 . 5in in early model to accommodate the larger engine . The fuselage also had to be strengthened . The Mk VII used the “c” type universal wings, capable of carrying either eight machine guns, four cannon or two cannon and four machine guns depending on the situation, but with the extended wing tips used on the Mk VI . The Mk VII was a pressurised fighter . It had a more advanced pressurisation system than the Mk VI, using a sliding cockpit canopy, which was more popular than the locked cockpit on the Mk VI . The best high altitude version of the Mk VII was powered by the Merlin 71, and could reach 416mph at 44,000 ft . The Mk VII remained in production from August 1942 until early in 1944, although only 140 aircraft were produced in that time . The Mk VII was a little more successful than the earlier Mk VI, but the “interim” Mk IX turned out to be capable of operating high altitude itself, and the Mk VII soon lost its special status as a high altitude fighter, although it remained in use throughout the war . " It cannot surprise that extensive modifications of these sorts cause problems to arise in times of intense stress and urgency . In all there were about 24 versions of this superb aircraft, although again it must be said that old workhorse Hurricane, despite its slowness, was actually responsible for more enemy aircraft losses than the much acclaimed Spitfire . The effort was most worthy and can hardly be criticised for lack of better materials, or quality control in the prevailing circumstances, numbers were required that did not permit of finesse or serious consideration of the resulting human resource costs either . It was indeed times when the British people, materials scientists, designers and weaponry constructors, under severe aerial attack at home as well as being deprived of resources and even food were being urged to prepare to fight . Refer . fiftiesweb . com/usa/winston-churchill-fight-beaches . htm" target="_blank">www . fiftiesweb . com :- " We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old . " Indeed the New World did step forth - eventually . It is very important to study the whole picture surrounding detailed observations at a great distance of time as without, and with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, it is easy to lead to unfair criticism of a very heroic and brave people doing their best in the circumstances . As a PS:- The comment "hysteresis and low modulus of the poor aluminum and bad alloys in the skin" is probably unfair too . One should note that the modulus ("Youngs" modulus) is nearly a constant for all metals, so how this indicates bad or poor alloys is difficult to determine, although they may have been bad or poor by todays standards (depending on the context) for the reasons outlined above . Bob	Cicero (40)
838566	2009-12-11 18:48:00	Very nice! I appreciate the view from the other side . It was indeed heroic and only a very staunch effort could have resulted in the aeronautical gains and lessons learned from such an (albeit: forced) endeavor . There were so many things wrong and at the same time right about the design and the carrying-out of building such an aircraft under the conditions prevalent, that it was something of awe, not just wonder, how something so wrought with design errors and flawed technology could even fly let alone become the first line of defense against German assaults . Metallurgy aside, and also temporarily pushing to the rear the life expectancy of the pilots - it was a wonder that anything could be brought to the fore under the circumstances that existed in England during that time . Winne had sold out to the West and needed that "Wow-factor" of home defense and the shock (feigned) that the Germans would even cower to stoop to such a low blow that now the English resolve had to be to go for it pell-mell . "It" was, of course a total drive to keep the Krauts off the beaches of England and out of their pubs . OK - that's sarcastic - but I totally believe that Churchill sold out to the circus that was to become WW-2 and he theatrically pushed England into a war that was inevitable anyway - but looked upon with scorn and fear amongst the Brit "civil" society . I'll leave that point now to get back to the aerodrome defenses and the so-resulting rush to fly that England had by reasons of rankled fear mongering and outright crass quantum leaps into political intrigue and unfortunate circumstances . The very materials that were needed for the building of any airframe were so tied up in stealth-like plots and counter-plots, that it makes a 007 movie small in comparison . The industrialists had England by the short hairs and although there were lots of Downing Street "persons" receiving plain brown envelopes of cash, it was not getting to the upper crust/echelons and they resented the fact that they too were not included in the payoffs and dark monies . Enter a new theater - war - and Winnie could legally shake up the criminals by making all their good-ol-boy machinations move toward a unified military action and therefor re-spread the cash to his own cronies and star chamber members . I hold Churchill personally responsible and morally destitute for what he did to the English people under the license of war acts, pending war acts and threats from the Germans . I feel he sold the whole island nation down the river and the resulting hurry-up to defense was a sham . It killed and destroyed more lives than just meet the eye on the battle fronts . It also killed the spirited romanticism in many fine people, even with their rather funny sounding speech and strange dietary habits . The inclusivio to this is that all this corruption rolled down hill and the materials and designs since they were so Neanderthal-like in design- with poor base materials and their crass and unqualified production - but this was all the Brits could do and organize under the circumstances . Churchill sent England into the fray prematurely with his personal vendettas and thought very little of the consequential actions - except to create a need to unify and tie into the Anglo-American Dual World Power that you see to this day .	SurferJoe46 (51)
838567	2009-12-11 19:07:00	Very nice! I appreciate the view from the other side. I hold Churchill personally responsible and morally destitute for what he did to the English people under the license of war acts, pending war acts and threats from the Germans. I feel he sold the whole island nation down the river and the resulting hurry-up to defense was a sham. It killed and destroyed more lives than just meet the eye on the battle fronts. It also killed the spirited romanticism in many fine people, even with their rather funny sounding speech and strange dietary habits. The inclusivio to this is that all this corruption rolled down hill and the materials and designs since they were so Neanderthal-like in design- with poor base materials and their crass and unqualified production - but this was all the Brits could do and organize under the circumstances. Churchill sent England into the fray prematurely with his personal vendettas and thought very little of the consequential actions - except to create a need to unify and tie into the Anglo-American Dual World Power that you see to this day. Most New Zealanders would read this and find it highly offensive. Churchill is a national hero here. Except to lefties greenies and commies. Never seen so much pro German rubbish in my life. I still hold the view the Spitfire and a bloke from from Thames NZ Air Vice Marshall Park saved the world. All while the USA did nothing until 7 Dec 41. If I was minister of immigration I would bar your entry to this country Australia, Canada South Africa.	prefect (6291)
838568	2009-12-11 19:24:00	Churchill deserved to live where he did. So do people who think he was a hero.	R2x1 (4628)
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