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Thread ID: 105913	2009-12-18 19:04:00	Two girls sentenced for Opotikie murder	Digby (677)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
840931	2009-12-20 22:43:00	Who are you to say it hasn't? That is the law we have, and what we vote for and have established. Killing them or sentencing them for further years in prison helps no one, and doesn't bring back the victim. Such vengence/revenge and hate, only leads to bitter hearts. It is difficult, but we need to forgive and move on. Part of many of life's trials. I dont recall being consultanted over law and sentencing, hell it that were true I'd be doing something about the ETS rort! Deterrents are what make people 2nd guess their actions. The removal of these from consecutive governments be it prison sentencing, prison conditions, school local parenti or parental rights for discipline. Until the above is fixed. anti social behaviour will not stop or decline as long as we are briding or making excuses for the behaviour....IMHO	SolMiester (139)
840932	2009-12-20 22:47:00	Are you saying there is no defense for it? Although they chose to use it, it still inpairs their thought and conscience to a degree, that some cannot understand or know what they're doing. I'm not excusing them for their actions, but had they had not been under the influence, they may not have committed this crime because they would have had their general common conscience. Is that not true? So mate, you are young and I'll allow for that.....I have used just about every drug going while I was young in London and have to say the above is total crap!	SolMiester (139)
840933	2009-12-20 23:01:00	To age 21 a bit harsh I will give my kids suitcases on their 16th birthdays as a hint. Well the bad news for you Prefect is that under the old law the parents were responsible whether the children were living with the parents or not. The parents had no way of avoiding their responsibility. I figure if Daddy spent time in jail because little Johnny painted half the town and burnt the school down things may well change in little Johnny’s life and everyone would be better for it. ;) Even better, little Johnny’s siblings may well revise their position. ;)	B.M. (505)
840934	2009-12-20 23:05:00	I dont disagree with the concept of being responsible for your offspring. Just saying nowdays 21 might be a little old. They can legally root, drink in the boozer and kill people in the army well before age 21.	prefect (6291)
840935	2009-12-21 07:16:00	I would be happy with a life sentence for murder is that asking too much. There is no defence never has been for getting pissed or high on drugs and killing someone. I f there is I will try if caught for driving pissed. Their only defence could be they havent adjusted to European laws yet from their stoneage warlike recent past. A life sentence would still not make you, or anyone else happy. It still does not change the fact, and that is what I'm trying to get at. You will never be satisfied with dishing out punishments to counteract that person - or in this case, the girls who murdered him. There is no defense for that. Someone is responsible for supplying those toe rags with mind altering substance. If the defense is, as you say, then the suppliers should also be bought to trial and charged with being the cause of the murder. As far as being 2 sides to the coin, some who toss it use double headed pennies to get the result they want! Ken - :angry still I wish that was the case. Alcohol causes more harm than good, on a world scale. Diminishing that would be a great resolution to a lot of life's problems, as well as the drug issue. It is about personal choice to take it, but under the influence who is making decisions? I have never been drunk, nor high off my face. Perhaps you have? Perhaps someone here has that explain their complete loss of time, reality, common sense, and their ability to see the future consequences of their actions? I am not defending them from the consequences, but a lot of people choose to not think about the other side... another point of view; being optimistic; placing yourself in their shoes. Perhaps if you did you may understand another's actions from their side. ...And I am not Harvey Dent. Each to their own accord. Reading a few of your post makes me wonder if you actually on the same planet.Not saying each to their own opinion, but it is these 'soft' views that crims are laughing at. This pair of idiots didn't steal a car or got caught doing graffiti, they took someones life, devastated families and now the taxpayer pays to 'rehabilitate' which we all know does not work or else we wouldn't have so many repeat offenders or people who are 'not worried' if they go to jail. Least chance of re offending: either lock them up or end them. 17 years too short in my eyes. Pity about the monetary cost. I'm living in the same country, but wearing the same glasses? It appears not. It is the 'hard' views that show biased and un-optimistic views that do not allow room for understanding from another point of view. One would never change their mind, if they never had a 'softer' view to view differently. They took someone’s life, under the influence. Yes. People mock and ridicule Jews, homosexuals, nerds and Black skinned people. People commit adultery, and sleep with their partners friends, and lie, cheat, steal, swear, abuse, insult, demean, shame, back stab and gossip about people. Most of which is very wrong, very bad and not enforced without any consequences. No one here is perfect, or has the ability to throw the first stone because each and every one of us has guilt and convictions in our own life, and things you have done which are not good, acceptable or moral in certain eyes. You say they should die for their crime, while one of you might have slept (with/another) women while being married to your wife. You saying taking another life is worse than sleeping with another person; how would that wife feel? Emotionally destroyed, the family breaks up, the kids split up, finance goes down the drain and the list goes on... there is no defense for that women and kids is there? Another factor to think about is the people that cry for themselves when someone dies, rather than the actual person.. They miss him/her; he/she was such a nice man/women to me. I doubt they would saying and thinking about how he would miss his flying lesson every Sunday afternoon and trimming the roses every evening before he drunk a ginger beer on the porch. Carrying on… the Judge, within his right and authority issues a punishment and disciplinary consequence for their crime then it should not be disputed. By the law of this land, the government we put in, what we vote for, and what we speak up on this is how it is. Justice has been served, because both have had their trials and their point of view, from the Crown and the Convicted and action has been taken. Everyone is very quick to cast judgment on other people; have we not looked in the mirror ourselves? Some act on their dark hearts and others allow their mind to ponder such thoughts in the depths of their mind. Some of you might have just realized that thought you had yesterday about shooting that customer you had in the shop…yet no rational healthy person would act on such a thought would they? The main issue is the drug trafficking and the people who push this crap in to the country and in to people’s lives. You cut the supply off, and then we can focus on much more. Cutting the tree’s brunches will stunt it’s grow for awhile but it will re-grow. Dig it out and destroy its roots, and that tree has no chance. You say it’s impossible? Tell that to Singapore Government. Killing another person, it doesn’t matter who, or what for, is murder. There is no justification for taking another person’s life. Revenge is just an excuse for the pain one feels, and hopes it will relieve them of that, but instead it destroys them and makes them bitter. Just some points I thought you should think about. Sure, you can have your opinion. But the victims here in this case is Mr John Rowe and his family and friends. Regarding whether or not justice has been served, no, you have no right to say anything about whether or not it has been served. It is their right to say so, if they chose to. There should be very little weighting if at all for crimes committed during an intoxicated state. People choose to get intoxicated; they have a choice. Not only that, it becomes very frustrating for the victims' families to endure hearing and knowing a killer/rapist/whatever getting very little or even no punishment just because the scumbag was drunk when committing the act. Have you ever had a loved one killed/raped/brutally savaged in any other way? I wonder what you would ever think if something atrocious ever happened to your mother, father, etc. And don't say you'll 'forgive them' etc....because if you've never had it happen to you.....then you never knew how it would feel. As for prisons....sure it may be pretty tough for some people, but if you take a look at the re-offending rate then obviously our prisons are not the deterrent it should be. Yeah...agree with that. Our rehabilitation program is equivalent to farm effluent, just like the spineless politicians who still advocate criminals rather than victims. I’m stating a fact, because the Judge has made his decision, and therefore justice has been served. Very little weighting? I notice you’re not 100% biased which is good to see. And indeed you are correct, however we are a democratic country, and we choose for our government and their policies, and their plans. Maybe changing your vote, or encouraging others to do so might help. I would like to add again, that very little, or no punishment is a point of view; and that each individual needs to look and their crimes and foul deeds they commit on a daily basis that hurt others. But the Judge makes the decision based on the law… if a Judge was not doing his job, he would be dismissed. But he/she is acting according to the law of this land, which we vote for and establish. Well, first I had one of my best friends die in a car accident along with her mother in Karori about 7 years ago. An intoxicated truck driver cut a corner, could not control the back trailer, and it decapitated the top of the vehicle. Also my friend’s grandmother(Who I dearly loved, as a 2nd grandmother) and half of his family who I knew 4 years ago died in a head on collision near the… bay of plenty I think it was. There is a certain bend near the ocean side, and a courier under the influence of cannabis was driving slightly on over the line when turning the corner. The courier’s reaction was instead of turning to the left, turned right in to them, and the bull bars crushed the car in to the median barrier. I believe one might recall that, as it was on the headlines and on the front page of the newspaper. I went with my friend to support him in identifying the bodies. The shiver down the spine, and the gulp in the throat isn’t a nice feeling at all and I still remember that. It was very horrible for my friend, and his mother. So, perhaps not savaged purposely… but, I call them atrocious deaths over dearly loved people that were a big part of my own life. You do forgive people. It is difficult, and I’ve never said and never will say it’s easy, but people make mistakes. People have their own lives, their own faults, and their own emotions to contend too. Perhaps for most without Jesus in their life… it’s very difficult, and perhaps unbearable. But, forgive people 7 times over. That bitterness and hatred destroys people. They’re not very good; no. Some American prisons are amazing though; people change so much in some of their rehabilitation centres. I’ve read a number of books about that. Very interesting topic. People can change, but there are degrees of difficulties and trials and sacrifices a lot must make. But, it needs work yes. Or better policing would be an option. Indeed SolMiester, but you may be in completely different circumstances which only you know about, that I don't know about, that could contribute for you being in a position to do/not a criminal or indecent act. Brian "Head" Welch who is/was the leader of Korn, explained a lot about his drug lifestyle and what it did to him. Perhaps general people are not so addicted or living such a lifestyle, however the effect is the same, but much less in people. My above, is not total crap, just not how you felt overall in your experiences of drug use. I think I'll take a bit of a break, and let you people dwell on my own points of view, rather than just your own. =D	Chris09 (15218)
840936	2009-12-21 08:16:00	Instead of writing the bible maybe just keep to whats happened, two people murdered. They should be dealt to more than locked up. The end.	rob_on_guitar (4196)
840937	2009-12-21 09:38:00	Instead of writing the bible maybe just keep to whats happened, two people murdered. They should be dealt to more than locked up. The end. And that was the gospel according to rob_on_guitar folks.	Chris09 (15218)
840938	2009-12-21 09:48:00	I would run with Robs gospel, its expressing popular sentiment.	prefect (6291)
840939	2009-12-21 09:57:00	Chris09. I have read what you have posted with interest. I can understand your point of view even. However there are some things that *I* will tolerate and others that I won't. Should *I* turn the other cheek and tolerate all failings of every other person on this planet just because you say so? The two people convicted of the murder of were presumably guilty of taking the life of a person who just happened to be in the wrong place at the time of the offence. You have mentioned a "conscience". You mention "rational people" and you have alluded to "common sense". Do we know if the two people convicted have a conscience which would imply knowing the difference between right and wrong and also feeling guilty? Do we know that the people concerned were "rational people" and also healthy. For all I know there may be mental health issues but the defendants did not plead that as a defence did they? Also "common sense" is sadly lacking. The fact that the girls involved have left the at large society for some 17 years tells me that they will not be able to offend against another person in the general society until they get out of prison by way of parole or escape. You mention that drugs and alcohol should not be available but the fact remains that the Govt has deemed alcohol to be legal for general use if over a certain age. The Government has failed to stem the tide of other illegal drugs. On my side I do not go along with a death penalty in general as I suspect that some people are incarcerated for crimes they did not commit.	Sweep (90)
840940	2009-12-21 11:45:00	think I'll take a bit of a break, and let you people dwell on my own points of view, rather than just your own. =D Oh, sure, and I might rub it all over my skin to moisturise it.	qazwsxokmijn (102)
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