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Thread ID: 108299	2010-03-23 01:21:00	All of a sudden, I'm glad I voted National this time....	Peterj116 (6762)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
869342	2010-03-24 20:33:00	It all depends how much you want to get a job. I wouldnt need $200 to move from one part of NZ to another. I would crawl on my hands and knees across NZ for a job to support my family if required. Any way I got sick of working for people 15 years ago. Lets stop the fantasy bullshit and talk real world situations. I have a friend who used to be quite senior in banking. She, due to complicated circumstances, moved to a small area 30km from Oamaru and got their first house via rent to buy. It needs work. Lots and lots of work. They were on the dole for about a year I think, and then got work in a wool bag place. It was low paid and complete crap. He washed them in chemicals, she sewed them. After a while they got work at Summit - the main employer in Oamaru. That paid better, 4 days on, 4 days off, night shift as well as days. They have 2 kids, the youngest is now in 5th form. The oldest has moved out and is in Polytech at Timaru. Summit wasn't nice either. More chemicals and a shocking safety record. A guy was killed there due to safety mechanisms not working on machinery. They lost their jobs at Summit along with 80 other people. Wool production is down and the company restructured. They are back on the dole. They have a large mortgage and can't afford to pay all the bills. She has been selling stuff off on Trademe to help make ends meet. Now, if they sold they would make a large loss, and the bank still requires you to pay the difference. And then how do they move? No she won't take her family and crawl. Be real. When we moved 4 years ago it cost me $8000 for the movers and that was a cheap independant one. When my friend moved 10 years ago she was given a car by me, which lasted them until just after they got there and found a guy to move part of their stuff for $1500. The rest was sold. The mover turned up with only half their things. They couldn't do anything about it cause it wasn't a real moving contract, no insurance, no proof of items etc. Explain how they move this time? At the very least you do need a car, which they have, but they couldn't afford the gas for one thing. And what about their stuff? They should toss it? It's not so easy selling furniture down in low population areas, and even if she did manage it, you don't get your money back and how then do they afford to start all over again somewhere else? Not to mention the mortgage that will still be owing. Add rent in the new place to that and they still can't make a living to cover both. She has thought of it, and she says if they don't get work soon, that's what will happen because the bank will force a sale. So don't talk crap, there are real situations and it's not that simple.	pctek (84)
869343	2010-03-24 20:47:00	... All too frquently, the imported goods are of significantly lower quality and durability so the consumer looses both ways. Example ; Fasteners made from inferior grade steels - Bolts sheeing like a stick of carrot without any significant torque being applied. What is needed is an impetus to buy New Zealand, to start making goods in NZ again, not to keep on flooding the market with more Cheap Crap from China. I agree with you, to certain degree. NZ made goods are supposed to be of better quality but not all. For example, school uniforms (made in NZ) are of no better quality than those shirts, etc imported from China but their prices are at least >100% higher than imported stuff. Another example is those PVC water buckets (made in NZ) are also of very poor quality - just to name a few. China made goods are not all craps if we are willing to pay for their higher quality stuff. They do have good quality products but we are NOT prepared or willing to pay for it.	bk T (215)
869344	2010-03-24 21:33:00	Lets stop the fantasy bullshit and talk real world situations. I have a friend who used to be quite senior in banking. She, due to complicated circumstances, moved to a small area 30km from Oamaru and got their first house via rent to buy. It needs work. Lots and lots of work. They were on the dole for about a year I think, and then got work in a wool bag place. It was low paid and complete crap. He washed them in chemicals, she sewed them. After a while they got work at Summit - the main employer in Oamaru. That paid better, 4 days on, 4 days off, night shift as well as days. They have 2 kids, the youngest is now in 5th form. The oldest has moved out and is in Polytech at Timaru. Summit wasn't nice either. More chemicals and a shocking safety record. A guy was killed there due to safety mechanisms not working on machinery. They lost their jobs at Summit along with 80 other people. Wool production is down and the company restructured. They are back on the dole. They have a large mortgage and can't afford to pay all the bills. She has been selling stuff off on Trademe to help make ends meet. Now, if they sold they would make a large loss, and the bank still requires you to pay the difference. And then how do they move? No she won't take her family and crawl. Be real. When we moved 4 years ago it cost me $8000 for the movers and that was a cheap independant one. When my friend moved 10 years ago she was given a car by me, which lasted them until just after they got there and found a guy to move part of their stuff for $1500. The rest was sold. The mover turned up with only half their things. They couldn't do anything about it cause it wasn't a real moving contract, no insurance, no proof of items etc. Explain how they move this time? At the very least you do need a car, which they have, but they couldn't afford the gas for one thing. And what about their stuff? They should toss it? It's not so easy selling furniture down in low population areas, and even if she did manage it, you don't get your money back and how then do they afford to start all over again somewhere else? Not to mention the mortgage that will still be owing. Add rent in the new place to that and they still can't make a living to cover both. She has thought of it, and she says if they don't get work soon, that's what will happen because the bank will force a sale. So don't talk crap, there are real situations and it's not that simple. You can find all the excuses you want if you really dont want to move to somewhere else for a job. My Dads ancestors were dirt poor peasant farmers in Essex England left in 1840 to start a better life in Nelson (As dirt poor farmers lol). I am sure they could have come up with a hundred reasons to have stayed in poverty rock.	prefect (6291)
869345	2010-03-24 21:40:00	From NZ Herald Website www.nzherald.co.nz Paula Bennett says if the work is not there, beneficiaries will not be penalised. The case managers will still cut the ****ing benefit even if there is no jobs in town. There needs to something more concrete rather than giving the case managers the right to cut the benefit if there is no work available in the town where the client resides. I think the manager of the WINZ branch should have the final say before something is done.	Ice Road Trucker (15659)
869346	2010-03-24 21:45:00	Some may be worried, but (I hope) this is aimed primarily at the lifestyle beneficiaries, who will targeted first.	Peterj116 (6762)
869347	2010-03-24 22:05:00	Some may be worried, but (I hope) this is aimed primarily at the lifestyle beneficiaries, who will targeted first. Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I think something needs to be done but target those who have been on it for years and give those who actually need the help the help they need.	Ice Road Trucker (15659)
869348	2010-03-25 00:09:00	I reckon that half of what National is saying won't even happen.	Ice Road Trucker (15659)
869349	2010-03-25 00:24:00	Before you can get the unemployed and the under employed working there have got to be meaningful jobs. If people have to relocate to obtain employment then the assistance in relocating has to be at a realistic level, not a token payment. Removal costs are not cheap, and bargain basement garage sales of home contents does not work for those with limited means who will have to replace their furniture and effects. All too often the lifestyle dole recipients get away with rorting the system longterm, while genuine cases of hardship get a raw deal. Possibly because it is easier for a case officer to deny a needy family not in the system than to pick a fight with a group of lifestyle beneficiaries, especially when there can be implications of discrimination.	KenESmith (6287)
869350	2010-03-25 01:17:00	All too often the lifestyle dole recipients get away with rorting the system longterm, while genuine cases of hardship get a raw deal. Possibly because it is easier for a case officer to deny a needy family not in the system than to pick a fight with a group of lifestyle beneficiaries, especially when there can be implications of discrimination. Lots of merit in that lot Ken.	Cicero (40)
869351	2010-03-25 08:36:00	A perfect example of the whole reason for this thread: Hundreds of state beneficiaries are receiving payments totalling more than $1000 a week . The top 50 recipients face an audit of their entitlements ordered by Social Development Minister Paula Bennett . She has revealed that 307 beneficiaries get more than $1000 a week . Many among the top 50 have more than eight children . They include a couple with 10 children who get $1200 a week . Both parents have been on the unemployment benefit for more than 15 years . Of those getting more than $1000 a week, 168 are on the domestic purposes benefit . The basic DPB pays $272 a week, but people receiving it can get extra allowances, such as grants for disabilities or sickness in families . Other top-ups include up to $255 a week in accommodation supplements, especially for those paying high rents in Auckland . Now why didn't Uncle Helen do that in 9 f****** years?	Peterj116 (6762)
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