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Thread ID: 108620	2010-04-05 04:05:00	Discussion: Why fibre to the door?	Chilling_Silence (9)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
873093	2010-04-08 04:32:00	Most people are not uploading anywhere near what they download, so ADSL is still perfectly fine. What we need is: ADSL2+ and lots of roadside cabinets for everyone so they can get at least 10Mbit downstream, implement Annex M so we can get 3Mbit upstream and get rid of stupid things like 3GB caps And then make that consistent throughout the country. It's all well and good to have this, but not if only 5 people can get it. Agree. I was on big time until this month as a student. 1gB then 64kbps.It doesnt even seem very goot 64kbps,i keep getting 'cannot connect to server' on big sites. Virtually unusable except if i turn off images and javascript. Back to big time i think. Il just eat less :P	pkm (13527)
873094	2010-04-08 06:16:00	OMG lol Dont get me started on the Saturn Network "Telstra Clear" hybrid fibre netowrk which I love. For a start the Auckland City councils basically killed the project in the late 90's when they voted all cables HAVE to go underground blowing out the cost of the project killing it for the ENTIRE country. IF that project was allowed to proceed as planned this thread would NOT exists. Fibre to the door is correcting that mistake. TO add Telecom seriously under invested for a DECADE, now they are frantically investing to try and protect there position, I am supposed to feel sorry for there current bottom line?, successive governments have warmed and warned them. I agree with most of your post. It is sad indeed that TelstraClear was unable to extend its network to Auckland and the rest of the country. And I agree that Telecom have under invested and milked their monopoly position for a decade or more. However, since the near-complete change in management and local loop unbundling this appears to have changed. Their infrastructure investments since the end of Gattung have skyrocketed, what with XT (the reliability issues with XT are nothing to do with this thread, so let's not argue about that too), cabinetisation etc. So here we have Telecom spending over a billion dollars improving our current broadband access, we have access prices for ADSL which are very reasonable and comparable to other countries. Don't confuse the access prices with data prices. You can get a full speed broadband plan here for $40 a month. It's the data which is expensive. So we have Telecom making quite a bit of investment these days - I think we should leave them to it and not intervene while things are just fine. The overseas data situation is an ENTIRELY different story though.	george12 (7)
873095	2010-04-08 06:59:00	I agree with most of your post. It is sad indeed that TelstraClear was unable to extend its network to Auckland and the rest of the country. And I agree that Telecom have under invested and milked their monopoly position for a decade or more. However, since the near-complete change in management and local loop unbundling this appears to have changed. Their infrastructure investments since the end of Gattung have skyrocketed, what with XT (the reliability issues with XT are nothing to do with this thread, so let's not argue about that too), cabinetisation etc. So here we have Telecom spending over a billion dollars improving our current broadband access, we have access prices for ADSL which are very reasonable and comparable to other countries. Don't confuse the access prices with data prices. You can get a full speed broadband plan here for $40 a month. It's the data which is expensive. So we have Telecom making quite a bit of investment these days - I think we should leave them to it and not intervene while things are just fine. The overseas data situation is an ENTIRELY different story though. What new great Telecom management are people going on about? looks like the same greedy Telecom management we have seen for over a decade. www.3news.co.nz Cabintisation means if you want to offer ADSL2 (what retail customers now expect), you have to go through Telecom wholesale or put in your own VERY expensive equipment which is not realistic for most ISP's. Telecom have side stepped un-bundling and maintained control of the local loop effectively out smarting the government. The government have realised this and thats why they are looking at Fibre to the door (2nd competing network). This is more about removing control from Telecom and levelling the playing field than just "faster internet".	Battleneter2 (9361)
873096	2010-04-08 08:34:00	What new great Telecom management are people going on about? looks like the same greedy Telecom management we have seen for over a decade. www.3news.co.nz Cabintisation means if you want to offer ADSL2 (what retail customers now expect), you have to go through Telecom wholesale or put in your own VERY expensive equipment which is not realistic for most ISP's. Telecom have side stepped un-bundling and maintained control of the local loop effectively out smarting the government. The government have realised this and thats why they are looking at Fibre to the door (2nd competing network). This is more about removing control from Telecom and levelling the playing field than just "faster internet". I don't see any part of that that's not fair. It's not Telecom's fault that few ISPs (only one?) want to spend the cash to buy their own equipment. Telecom's buying it. Telecom's selling the wholesale access to it if anyone wants to buy it. Or anyone can install the 'very expensive equipment' as Orcon is. The salaries of execs have nothing to do with this issue at all. It's the shareholders that suffer the cost of their gigantic salaries.	george12 (7)
873097	2010-04-08 08:36:00	That's really the same question as why Telecom has to share their local loop. My understanding is that if they did not have to share the cabinets, all this local-loop-unbundling stuff would be useless. Perhaps because much of Telecom's infrastructure came originally from the Government itself, which is of course a huge advantage for Telecom - ie, the expensive copper assets are already built. Nope - you can keep the loop unbundled, have other ISPs put their gear in the exchange, and all Chorus would need to do is simply "pass through" the copper connection from the cabinet down the existing copper cables back to the exchange. Other ISPs still have access to the local loop - just not the new, non-government funded infrastructure Telecom has installed. There are technical considerations with this approach, but it was a model which can work, and was floated by one of the consultants involved in the original unbundling process.	somebody (208)
873098	2010-04-08 08:40:00	Nope - you can keep the loop unbundled, have other ISPs put their gear in the exchange, and all Chorus would need to do is simply "pass through" the copper connection from the cabinet down the existing copper cables back to the exchange. Other ISPs still have access to the local loop - just not the new, non-government funded infrastructure Telecom has installed. There are technical considerations with this approach, but it was a model which can work, and was floated by one of the consultants involved in the original unbundling process. Ah. Are you saying that ISPs are not allowed to put their own equipment in the cabinets? I thought they could.	george12 (7)
873099	2010-04-08 09:23:00	My understanding was that other suppliers could put their equipment into the exchanges. They started doing this and some genuine levelling of the playing fields appeared possible, until Telecom announced the cabinetisation policy, which promptly skewed things again. About that time some rules got formulated, but the ISPs who had leapt into the exchanges were a bit miffed.	R2x1 (4628)
873100	2010-04-08 09:35:00	Ah. Are you saying that ISPs are not allowed to put their own equipment in the cabinets? I thought they could. They can put equipment in cabinets - 40% of the space in all of the Whisper cabinets has been set aside for other ISPs. Telecom pre-empted the ComCom when they announced their cabinetisation programme by announcing that competitors would be able to lease space in the cabinets, and rent back-haul fibre capacity from Chorus if needed. My point was, you could still do LLU and have cabinets in place, without having to force Telecom to give competitors access to their new infrastructure (i.e. the cabinets) - which is SLU (sub-loop unbundling).	somebody (208)
873101	2010-04-08 11:15:00	You can still put your equipment in JUST the exchanges if you wish to do-so, but you'll have slower speeds just due to the design of ADSL, and how it works. Yes, 40% is reserved for other "access seekers" as Chorus calls them, in all the new roadside cabinets. You've clearly never been on a decent cabinetized connection ;)	Chilling_Silence (9)
873102	2010-04-08 21:18:00	I don't see any part of that that's not fair. It's not Telecom's fault that few ISPs (only one?) want to spend the cash to buy their own equipment. Telecom's buying it. Telecom's selling the wholesale access to it if anyone wants to buy it. Or anyone can install the 'very expensive equipment' as Orcon is. The salaries of execs have nothing to do with this issue at all. It's the shareholders that suffer the cost of their gigantic salaries. Telecom is the incumbent ex state owned enterprise Telco, given complete control of the local loop for many decades locking out competitors. Telecom largely got there market share from the taxpayer through the government regulation. Since local loop un-bundeling, Telecom have used there financial might if you will, to outsmart the governments with Cabintisation knowing much of the industry cant afford there own equipment (they keep control). Its nearly entirely political, however I would point out Labour were the the ones that started gunning for Telecom in government and didnt really succeed. National are only finishing the job. I cant dumb it down any further than that, if people cant understand the main motive for the government looking at FTTD then this thread is kinda pointless.	Battleneter2 (9361)
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