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Thread ID: 109596	2010-05-14 19:53:00	Navtej Singh-Police Blunder ?	wmoore (6009)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
884927	2010-05-15 06:08:00	The army will never mobilize within NZ. The army will never mobilize within a country, it hurts morale too much to have to fire against your own citizens. Obviously relief efforts are different things. As is technical support, however they will never be given orders to "act" here. the role is probably taken over by the Special Tactics Groups (STG). i would think SAS would still get involved with national incidents BUT that would be the most extreme cases which we have never had here before. they are the only ones with the training and experience for certain things. at the sort of incident they could be deployed on, i doubt very much that nationality is going to change anything. And then be charged with assault, murder, manslaughter or something similar? Yeah right. not quite what i meant. no one is asking a person to go in guns blazing. but as a rough example in the Singh case, the family or bystanders could have simply gone in and pulled him out and driven him to hospital before an ambulance had even got there. unfortunately they probably obeyed the instructions from the police instead of telling them to go shove it and got him to hospital themselves. you might remember the case where farmers rang the neighbors for help before calling 111. the farmers got told off for doing so even tho their actions saved someones life. also the case where police locked the victims phone so it only called police and they couldn't call the neighbors who could have helped far far early than the police could have. unfortunately its been drummed into people to call 111 and they will come running to save the day. the reality is that thats not true. its better to save the persons life first then call them because emergency services are simply to slow to respond. for eg they will make you hang on the phone while someone (including yourself) will bleed to death.	tweak'e (69)
884928	2010-05-15 23:05:00	they already do have such teams, called AOS. theres also another tactical team (not sure of the name) for major incidents. last resort is SAS. Firstly the AOS does not use speed aggression and surprise, they do cordon and contain. Secondly the AOS are not on the road 24/7 (they must meet up get set up etc etc) If we had a set up like SO19/CO19 which the MET in the UK have of four heavily armed officers to each vehicle on the roads 24/7 ready to respond to any situation. There is a time for cordon and contain, but in many other cases a SO19/C019 type set up would be better suited.	wmoore (6009)
884929	2010-05-15 23:19:00	I think the police should have acted much faster than they did. Especially when there were other people around at the time, not being shot at ! I also dislike the current police of police to always say we are looking at laying charges ! They should say, "We will lay charges" That said I have always found the police to be helpful and quick acting, I had a step son who was a bit off the rails....	Digby (677)
884930	2010-05-16 01:23:00	Firstly the AOS does not use speed aggression and surprise, they do cordon and contain. Secondly the AOS are not on the road 24/7 (they must meet up get set up etc etc) If we had a set up like SO19/CO19 which the MET in the UK have of four heavily armed officers to each vehicle on the roads 24/7 ready to respond to any situation. There is a time for cordon and contain, but in many other cases a SO19/C019 type set up would be better suited. two big problems. we don't have the population density to make it worth while and we don't have spare police officers to man it. police here are very much under resourced. to man a couple of full time squads would mean a fair few towns and suburbs would loose their police. AOS is the closest we will get.	tweak'e (69)
884931	2010-05-16 01:34:00	the role is probably taken over by the Special Tactics Groups (STG). i would think SAS would still get involved with national incidents BUT that would be the most extreme cases which we have never had here before. they are the only ones with the training and experience for certain things. at the sort of incident they could be deployed on, i doubt very much that nationality is going to change anything. not quite what i meant. no one is asking a person to go in guns blazing. but as a rough example in the Singh case, the family or bystanders could have simply gone in and pulled him out and driven him to hospital before an ambulance had even got there. unfortunately they probably obeyed the instructions from the police instead of telling them to go shove it and got him to hospital themselves. you might remember the case where farmers rang the neighbors for help before calling 111. the farmers got told off for doing so even tho their actions saved someones life. also the case where police locked the victims phone so it only called police and they couldn't call the neighbors who could have helped far far early than the police could have. unfortunately its been drummed into people to call 111 and they will come running to save the day. the reality is that thats not true. its better to save the persons life first then call them because emergency services are simply to slow to respond. for eg they will make you hang on the phone while someone (including yourself) will bleed to death. Tweak ya banged the nail on the head there about self help, even when the feds are trying to hinder you by blocking your phone. Never thought about that angle does seem strange why they didnt ignore the feds and bundle him in vehicle and take him to hospital. Just like the Palestinians do when the isreaelis shoot the protesters even when the isrelis are sniping at the red crescent ambulance. Being Asians it might be a culture thing to be scared of the police where europeans here take what the police say with a grain of salt and use commonsense.	prefect (6291)
884932	2010-05-16 03:04:00	Being Asians it might be a culture thing to be scared of the police where europeans here take what the police say with a grain of salt and use commonsense. i don't think its a race/culture thing. its simply normal people respect authority and will do what an authority figure tells them to do. theres been a few doco's and studies on it which confirmed that. a good example of that would be the case a few years back when a guy got shot on the street and he got to the nearest house and collapsed on the door step. police kept the house wife on the phone rather than let her attend to his injures. she did what authority told her to do.	tweak'e (69)
884933	2010-05-17 10:40:00	Loved the last paragraph from this news item in a Russian newspaper here. Maybe what NZ needs to do at times. Three members of a criminal group behind the March 29 terrorist attacks on the Moscow metro have been killed, Federal Security Service chief Alexander Bortnikov said on Thursday. The three killed were members of a "criminal group, which included people who had accompanied the suicide bombers on their way to Moscow and one of them to the site of the terrorist attack," he said at a meeting with President Dmitry Medvedev. "Unfortunately, we did not manage to detain them alive, they offered fierce armed resistance and were eliminated," he added.	tut (12033)
884934	2010-05-17 20:36:00	I have never been a fan of the NZ AOS the maoris at Urawereas were polite by calling them Ninjas. They love to dress in black and look cool just like the police heavy vehicle unit are a collection of numbnuts. They are just wannabe SWAT but they wouldnt make a SWAT ****hole. Their whole focus or mode of operation is wrong imo the first priority should be to rescue people who have been shot if that means taking some casualties well so be it. Thats why you signed the dotted line and swore to help the citizens. They can play their contain and cordon procedure if no one has been hit by the gunman. If I was in charge of the AOS they would get panzerfausts and fire them at the gunman at a drop of a hat soon see how the gunman likes that.	prefect (6291)
884935	2010-05-17 21:19:00	If I was in charge of the AOS they would get panzerfausts and fire them at the gunman at a drop of a hat soon see how the gunman likes that. What a load of nonsense! They already have rifles and managed to hit a bystander (Halatau Naitoko).	PaulD (232)
884936	2010-05-17 21:26:00	Loved the last paragraph from this news item in a Russian newspaper here. Maybe what NZ needs to do at times. Three members of a criminal group behind the March 29 terrorist attacks on the Moscow metro have been killed, Federal Security Service chief Alexander Bortnikov said on Thursday. The Russians operate on a different level. Remember the hostage situation where "Almost all the 117 hostages who were killed when Russian troops stormed a Moscow theatre on Saturday died from gas poisoning, it has been admitted. " news.bbc.co.uk	PaulD (232)
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