Forum Home
PC World Chat
Thread ID: 147666	2019-02-28 18:09:00	To arm our Police. Or not.	WalOne (4202)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1458587	2019-03-01 05:35:00	It just needs the police to raid every gang pad, and ever gang house (state house) and search for guns Melt the guns and charge them for owning an illegal gun. Its not rocket science. Not just gang members - also farming communities including those with legal guns should be checked regularly. I recall when a elderly man blasted his two adult sons away, then chasing his primary school age granddaughter with a shot gun on their large Pukekohe (I think) farm. Kids would bring guns to school if legalized I guess.	kahawai chaser (3545)
1458588	2019-03-01 05:47:00	Going through the firearms licensing at the moment it certainly isn't easy to obtain it. Crims don't bother as they get them on the black market.	gary67 (56)
1458589	2019-03-01 06:06:00	Look at the US, didn't do much to stop crime there, did it? I read something many years ago that stuck with me - that more cops in the US were shot with their own weapons, than weapons bought to the fight by the crooks. I can't remember where I read this, but it was before the days of social media.	allblack (6574)
1458590	2019-03-01 06:39:00	In answer to the "Topic Heading" Wal “They are already armed to the hilt”. ;) They are just more discreet than most Countries, and that is not a bad thing. If you don’t believe me, put a shot over their heads and see their armaments first hand. :D	B.M. (505)
1458591	2019-03-01 10:47:00	It just needs the police to raid every gang pad, and ever gang house (state house) and search for guns Melt the guns and charge them for owning an illegal gun . Its not rocket science . Sounds to me that where you want to live has no guarantee of personal rights to not have the police walk into your home when they 'think they ought to do so' --- right? Before or after you get up? Three AM is a good time for an armed police visit --- right? Suppose your neighbor doesn't like you or your dog --- and says that you are certifiably crazy and that you told him that you're going to blow up the neighborhood with a medium yield nuclear warhead . Do the police in your dreamland have a right to enter your home, fully in SWAT gear, on a neighbor's spiteful rumor? . . . without a warrant? . . . . . without at least having a judge review the request for a warrant? . . . . . . . . do your ponies have wings? Where is the line drawn to keep your house safe and secure from illegal searches . . . but you want to have the 'alleged bad guys' searched on whim and fancy? This is a very slippery slope - to allow one 'class' of citizen to have general inalienable rights and not the other one . It is also very divisive and causes hate and discontent inside the society . BETWEEN the social groups . I think it's scary to not have a secure home where it would take a court to decide that they really, really need a warrant to enter a person's home . That's sad if one would allow the police to just walk in if they hear a rumor that you have a gun, bomb, large truck with a very large bumper . . . or you like to pull the wings off of flies . What you really need is a king to tell you what to do; if you don't, it's "Off with his (or her) head" at the whim or fancy of the regal non-court . If the king likes you, you're safe . Otherwise, if the king doesn't like you, you're in trouble - or garroted . Or guillotined . Drawn-and-quartered . Sent to Australia . But --- yeah --- a King would be a good idea - 'cause with a King you know where you stand - right? I read something many years ago that stuck with me - that more cops in the US were shot with their own weapons, than weapons bought (sic) to the fight by the crooks . I can't remember where I read this, but it was before the days of social media . I don't see this metric as being true . 'Before the days of social media' is kinda like 'before block printing'' or 'before sentience' . My BS alarm goes off when I hear things like this . I admit that communication today is rife with fake news and people of certain derangements, but I'm sure that something as blatantly incorrect in your statement --- as this would certainly be shot down with gusto . In the 1800's, it's certainly possible since there's scant few ways to check the facts and fewer people in your network . The advent of the interwebs in the 1990's and beyond makes it harder to put something like this online without a least SOME counterpoints to consider . (Me) Living in the 'shooting gallery' that you seem to believe the US is, I would have at least heard a rumor or two . Nope . Not even a whisper . Are you thinking of an inadvertent shooting of another officer in a cross-fire situation --- or just suicides? Certainly there are recorded situations where crossfire and 'friendly fire' deaths have occurred . It happens, but not on so much of a scale that it isn't seriously studied and becomes part of the training treatise . That said: Neither scenario seems likely to me, and I'm sure that the anti-gun people would use this as a reason to disarm everyone . Police training is so strong that having a cross-fire situation is obviously trained-for and against . But how do you disarm the lawless ones? These are criminals because they act-out crimes --- hence the nickname "criminal" . Arming themselves is not a result of the police having firearms - quite the opposite . If you have little to no fear that your illegal act can be met with equal or superior force, you go for it . Why not? You're not going to be in jeopardy if there's no counter-action for your bad acts . As a criminal and law-scoffer, you might tend to not do what could get your killed . That's sad when you think about it . It's also true . An armed society is a polite society . Is that a cheap-shot? I don't think so . I've seen it in action and I recognize that any state with concealed carry laws in alignment of the Second Amendment of the US Constitution, creates a nicer place to live . I do not fear those who carry weapons and do so legally . . . with class and civil responsibility . I more likely should fear those who carry weapons and use them to kill innocent people with no class nor sense of responsibility . Another cute saying: "Never bring a knife to a gun fight" makes sense . When ---> if you are outgunned --- and you are likely to die that day --- and when you need to have an upper hand in stopping a robbery, a hostage situation, or meet a mad ex-GI who hasn't had his PTSD treated ---> you will seriously reconsider your job as a police officer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and decide to take up a safer line of work like a nuclear haz-mat spill remover in Japan . In speaking of states like Arizona, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, The North & South Dakotas, etc . ; These states have exceptionally low criminal rates and certainly it is not a good idea to try to rob a store if the possibility that another person may be "A Gray Man" and he's carrying - and might shoot you! Those states have open and concealed carry laws that let every citizen do so as they see fit . States like California, New York, New Jersey, Michigan, Massachusetts (Boston is the largest shooting-gallery in the US), Washington DC . , all have very high murder rates with firearms . For the record: New York has "The Sullivan Act" that forbids citizens to have handguns and concealable arms . Period . New York has some of the most violent, murderous statistics of almost any other state . Hawaii has odious laws forbidding handguns and yet there are more handguns in the hands of criminals that most any other state . How can that be since they are outright illegal to have by almost anybody? SOMEbody's not reading the fine print there about firearms . . . . huh? Because the 'somebody' there is not obeying the law and the general citizenry is fair game and a target for the illegal actions of those who have the guns, albeit: illegally . When you have a number of people who do not care if they cause great mayhem and they murder and these same ones perform other illegal activities --- do you honestly think they'll stop to fill out a form to have their firearms registered and made legal? If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have them . There are very few deaths caused by a gone-rogue, legally-carrying citizen; so few in fact that it's quite the opposite --- but this are not reported by the gun-hating press . It would counter their statements and lies . School shootings are almost always caused by Caucasian, somewhat educated, young males with a malevolent view of society . They leave 'clues' all over the place: their webpages, social media, lone-person, moody and as anti-social outcasts who leave clues and other warning-sign actions like joining The American Nazi Party or ISIS . They mutilate kittens or they play war mongering first shooter games 24/7 . They usually steal or illegally acquire their means of social destruction from parents or relatives . If they can't find an access to guns, they have used sharp things like knives and machetes or they go all the way to using bombs in the past . Ka-BOOM! If not car bombs or firearms, then they drive a big truck through a crowd of people or set fires to high-rise buildings . The choice of weapon is going to be contained in the availability of what they can easily find . This person WILL KILL and MAIM for fun, as a political statement or from commands by the voices in their head . In answer to the "Topic Heading" Wal “They are already armed to the hilt” . ;) They are just more discreet than most Countries, and that is not a bad thing . If you don’t believe me, put a shot over their heads and see their armaments first hand . :D I believe this to be true . The days of the good guys wearing white hats, and the bad guys wearing black --- are all over . It's not easy to see who the perp might be - and when . Some people are just born malevolent - others are made that way . Nature v nurture . Your job is to divide them into logical units and treat each unit as need be . Tough huh? If you are so hateful that you must strike out and just kill someone - it's going to happen if you have to use a hammer . So let's collect and burn all the hammers . Then what's next? ice picks? chain saws? cricket bats? bags of crickets? For the police to be a deterrent to crime - they MUST be top-gun . If hand guns are the tool the criminal chooses, then they have to be met with at least the same tool . . . . or better . Guns are just a tool . With the 'tool-thing' in mind - let's take all the cops out of cars so they won't incite a criminal to drive really fast and disobey the red lights and signs . What the pink-place, touchy-feely, social-psychiatrists don't want to do is cause a criminal to break any other laws - right? It might go against them on their future career resumes . It might go so far as insult their mothers . . . . . . and lose the right to vote for more socialism . . . . . . Here's a good idea: Let's take the cops out of uniform so they won't scare a criminal to a life of crime because they hate uniforms . Silly --- right? Yeah it is . For the record - I believe in law enforcement, and I want them to have the weapons they need to keep the peace . I want the criminals held accountable for the crimes they do . If a criminal causes the loss of life, they should be indebted the same . I also want to personally have the right to make the decision if I do or if I don't want to own a firearm and the right to buy one if I am so enamored . Whether I chose to or not, I believe that I should be afforded the ability to arm myself because the police can't get there in time to mitigate a problem that is on-going . I chose to NOT be armed for self-protection of the two-legged kind . That's what should be my inalienable right . I arm myself for bear defense when I'm fishing - that's all . Fishing . Bears . Me . Survivor . Alpha being Period . I am not the problem . Criminals are the problem; outlaw THEM! I'm going to bed - it's almost 4AM and I'm expecting the police for High Tea any moment . NOT!	SurferJoe46 (51)
1458592	2019-03-02 00:19:00	Lot of "bleeding hearts" in upside-down-land. They would rather see a police person shot with a shotgun. Great imaginations' tooo, as if the police shooter would be aiming at the second story window of a building 200 meters away. Ricochets are always on the cards as any shooter knows.	Lurking (218)
1458593	2019-03-02 01:10:00	Nick, you're from Christchurch aren't you? That's what sparked this thread, Canterbury Police District being temporarily armed :) Indeed I am :)	Nick G (16709)
1458594	2019-03-02 02:15:00	Look at the US, didn't do much to stop crime there, did it? If the police are armed the criminals will think they need guns which will make the general public think they require firearms to protect themselves. Next thing it will be the same as the US. I don't think that we want that. you cannot compare NZ with USA. we do not have the same gun culture as USA does. "crims will think they need guns" is BS. the problem is they already have them. the thing thats happening now is them using them. not just against police but in protecting their drug business from anyone. the core of the issue is not guns but rather failure of police to contain the meth trade due to them being horribly under resourced. the use of guns is simply due to the wide spread meth trade and the massive profits it brings in. with the high profits come the money to buy black market firearms or trade drugs for stolen firearms. arming of police is not a good idea. couple of bad side effects is suicide by police and targeting of police for weapons. however due to the ever increasing of violence of the meth war, they really should arm the police to some degree. but its unlikely anything will happen. even if govt spent money on firearms, they sure as hell will not spend the time and money on the training required. let alone have things like gun/body cameras to go with it.	tweak'e (69)
1458595	2019-03-02 03:38:00	you cannot compare NZ with USA . we do not have the same gun culture as USA does . "crims will think they need guns" is BS . the problem is they already have them . the thing thats happening now is them using them . not just against police but in protecting their drug business from anyone . the core of the issue is not guns but rather failure of police to contain the meth trade due to them being horribly under resourced . the use of guns is simply due to the wide spread meth trade and the massive profits it brings in . with the high profits come the money to buy black market firearms or trade drugs for stolen firearms . arming of police is not a good idea . couple of bad side effects is suicide by police and targeting of police for weapons . however due to the ever increasing of violence of the meth war, they really should arm the police to some degree . but its unlikely anything will happen . even if govt spent money on firearms, they sure as hell will not spend the time and money on the training required . let alone have things like gun/body cameras to go with it . I think there's a consensus there about the 'culture' part and all . The US is spread so thin that any emergency police response is not always going to be in the same 15 minute time period - some not even in the same day . "Pardon me Mister (enter one job description from the list below) but I need to dial this phone and call the police to protect me from you" 1) drug-crazed rapist 2) drug-crazed murderer 3) drug-crazed kidnapper and rapist 4) drug-crazed sex worker 5) drug-crazed illegal alien - er, 'confused tourist' is the new PC term . Sorry . 6) drug-crazed pedophile looking for new meat 7) drug-crazed Cricket Player (works for me!) While you're on hold listening to "Your call is important to us . Please stay on the line for the next available operator . In the meantime, enjoy this musical rendition of "You're Having A Baby" by The Mormon Tabernacle Choir performing with Melvin Crump & His Band With A Thump" - just won't cut it . The problem is NOW and the police are maybe - LATER . A lot - not all - of the crime in the US is over-the-border spillage from the drug cartels in Mexico and South America . With all but wide open borders - they even have miles-long tunnels that can pass powered vehicles through the tunnels - and the fact that the US Border Patrol is all but castrated by feel-good legislatures who are only trying to increase their voting constituents - it's a disaster to say that they are armed . They are MIGHTILY armed . That inner city 'yoots' like to kill each other over turf wars and drug zones is just nuts too . First, there are no real incentives to NOT war with their neighbors for a foothold in someone else's territory . Crime pays and pays well . The older kingpins just recruit pre-teen youngsters into their fold and train them to be (first) runners and then dealers and then they get their own 'territories' to fight for and defend against encroaching other gangs . The first time a youthful 'offender' gets caught, he gets a little less than a wrist slap . Once the child gets to the age of majority, he may get jail time if the offense is serious enough . This will be his First Strike . Once released, the young man may get busted again for a felony and that becomes his Second Strike . The Third Strike will keep the perp in prison forever, so to keep that from happening, the gangs make sure that he doesn't get any felonies added onto his rap-sheet again and they move him to Management . The gangs have this 1 - 2 - 3 Strategy in place and it works . They take care of their own . That misguided legislators knee-jerk to the song that "We gotta get rid of ALL the guns" makes no sense at all . You know why and you can chant it with me ------> Because only the lawfully motivated people will obey the law and either sell or send their firearms in for crushing and melting down . The criminals won't . Simply put . I don't think NZ has any borders in common to any other country - especially one with corrupt presidents and drug cartels running everything including the churches . The cartels are so powerful that they build and run privateer submarines carrying tons of drugs ( . wikipedia . org/wiki/Narco-submarine" target="_blank">en . wikipedia . org), out of and below the eyes of the interdiction forces . Yeah - it's that bad .	SurferJoe46 (51)
1458596	2019-03-02 03:57:00	I think there's a consensus there about the 'culture' part and all. The US is spread so thin that any emergency police response is not always going to be in the same 15 minute time period - some not even in the same day. while we don't have the sheer size of usa, we simply do not have the police force. you have far more police per population than us. even in a well populated aera where i am, have 4 police stations within 15 minute drive, none of them a manned full time and they often have to call in cops from outside the aera. also people often have the exception that police are there to "protect" you, but in reality they are nothing more than a clean up crew. yet the policy is that your expected to play victim, let crim do whatever he wants and they will find him later on. a tv and booze is not worth dying over. however as meth is drug of choice, that advice really doesn't work anymore. it really doesn't help that those who protect themselves often get punished by being dragged through court. compare that to the usa where cocaine i think is still drug of choice and personal protection is expected rather than punished.	tweak'e (69)
1 2 3 4 5 6