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Thread ID: 114000	2010-11-14 05:30:00	What a hideuos road toll this weekend...	beetle (243)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1152719	2010-11-14 23:42:00	Really? Who says? It's common but...... I totally agree, pctek. Responsibility comes before right. When we are driving from A to B we just wonder why the road toll isn't even higher.	Marnie (4574)
1152720	2010-11-15 01:15:00	Yes and the silly season is fast approaching. :( Did it ever stop? :annoyed::annoyed::annoyed:	Zippity (58)
1152721	2010-11-16 21:40:00	www.nzherald.co.nz It's not often someone responsible for a fatal crash gets media attention. I think this incident has angered alot of people so she will be hung out to dry. What's the bet that the stupid cow was texting or something? Apart from some drastic mechanical failure, I can't understand how you would end up on the wrong side of the road like that without being careless. I really hope we get some answers for what happened but it won't bring those cyclists back.	legod (4626)
1152722	2010-11-16 22:16:00	. nzherald . co . nz/nz/news/article . cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10687871" target="_blank">www . nzherald . co . nz It's not often someone responsible for a fatal crash gets media attention . I think this incident has angered alot of people so she will be hung out to dry . What's the bet that the stupid cow was texting or something? Apart from some drastic mechanical failure, I can't understand how you would end up on the wrong side of the road like that without being careless . I really hope we get some answers for what happened but it won't bring those cyclists back . Too early really to be speculating on the how . Could be one (or a combination) of multiple reasons - too fast (late for work - new job, apparently), so cut the corner; forgot which side of the road she should be driving on (I understand she has recently returned from a stint in Canada); texting; inattention; driving one-handed while eating/drinking; adjusting the stereo . . . Who knows - but I'm sure the Police Forensics team will establish a cause, but it may take a while . Whatever the reason, as you say, it won't bring those people back . She will eventually be charged: Careless Driving Causing Death (x2) and Careless Driving Causing Injury (x1) . The tragedy there, as I mentioned above, is that she will get a 'bulk discount' on the charges and will receive punishment as if she was charged only with one . . . :( Understandably, there is (and will continue to be) a lot of anger about this tragedy, but the cynic in me suggests that nothing will change, in the short to medium term . You can't legislate attitude changes (unfortunately) . And education, if it works at all, is a long slow process .	johcar (6283)
1152723	2010-11-16 22:37:00	Driving is a right any government that says otherwise and does something stupid will be on their ear because a lot of voters drive. Wrong very wrong and thats something that you and many people who say driving is a right can not see or understand. Driving licence a privilege, not a right. If it was a right you would not need to gain a licence. Being able to drive is something we take for granted nowdays because it is so neccessary to be able to use a vehicle in every day life in New Zealand. I earned my privalage to drive and if I stuff up and disobey the rules then it will be taken from me, yet another thing that people struggle to comprehend and in truth New Zealand is way to lax in enforcing those rules. Then again maybe its because I gained my driving experiance in another country where enforcement is tougher? NZ has to much focus on the revenue gathering side rather than making people fear losing the licence. Lot of factors involved in these incidents over this weekend. Having been to numerous road accident scenes over the years nothing really is cut and dried as to the cause or reason. But one common theme is the road design in New Zealand which has been pointed out is to narrow on many stretchs of road with very little escape or vision to actualy be acceptable to the guidlines of the road code i.e. clear vision ahead and allowing room passing slower vehicles. Roading improvements are the only way to cull the amount of deaths and injuries oon our roads. It will not prevent them but will reduce the risk and the idiots will still be idiots except you will be able to find them easier.	coldfront (15814)
1152724	2010-11-16 22:43:00	Ok its a right to apply for a licence then. Some voters are drivers no government had better forget it.	prefect (6291)
1152725	2010-11-16 23:18:00	Wrong very wrong and thats something that you and many people who say driving is a right can not see or understand . Driving licence a privilege, not a right . If it was a right you would not need to gain a licence . Being able to drive is something we take for granted nowdays because it is so neccessary to be able to use a vehicle in every day life in New Zealand . I earned my privalage to drive and if I stuff up and disobey the rules then it will be taken from me, yet another thing that people struggle to comprehend and in truth New Zealand is way to lax in enforcing those rules . Then again maybe its because I gained my driving experiance in another country where enforcement is tougher? NZ has to much focus on the revenue gathering side rather than making people fear losing the licence . Lot of factors involved in these incidents over this weekend . Having been to numerous road accident scenes over the years nothing really is cut and dried as to the cause or reason . But one common theme is the road design in New Zealand which has been pointed out is to narrow on many stretchs of road with very little escape or vision to actualy be acceptable to the guidlines of the road code i . e . clear vision ahead and allowing room passing slower vehicles . Roading improvements are the only way to cull the amount of deaths and injuries oon our roads . It will not prevent them but will reduce the risk and the idiots will still be idiots except you will be able to find them easier . Kiwis don't fear losing their licence, because it takes a BIG infringement to lose it, and even if you do, it's a piece of cake to get a day licence . Nanny-state couldn't possibly cause Joe Blow to lose his driving job!!! Never mind that it was Joe Blow's own actions that put him in that position . And even if you can't get a day licence, and go ahead and drive without one, the penalties imposed are pathetic . No fear of consequences, no respect . Roading improvements would have only a small effect on road deaths/injuries . NZ roads (mostly) are no worse than anywhere else in the civilised world . It's driver attitude that is at the very heart of the matter . The attitude that "I'm a good driver . I can react in milliseconds . It will never happen to me (because I'm a good driver) . Driving to my destination is a race - no-one must overtake me . Anyone in/on a smaller vehicle shouldn't be on the road . " is the key to problems on NZ roads . Ask anyone who has driven overseas and then drives here!!!	johcar (6283)
1152726	2010-11-17 00:24:00	I agree with what you said and by refering to roading improvements I was echoing what was pointed out by a member of the family of one the cyclists killed. We laughingly call our roads Highways yet many of them would struggle to be classified anything more than a UK B grade road. Those road also have a speed restriction of 60mph (100kph). Our Motorways struggle to even match a UK A road so little wonder why it is suggested road improvements needed.	coldfront (15814)
1152727	2010-11-17 00:39:00	Have to agree with you on the designation of roads in NZ (having driven in the UK for several years as a courier). The Auckland Motorway (for instance) does not deserve that designation - it almost wouldn't make an A-road either. The problem and the difference here its that there is not a 55-60 million people tax-base to build and maintain the standard of road you see in the UK and Europe. So everything is done on the cheap: chip-seal anyone? But despite that I still maintain that it comes back to driver attitude. The roads aren't all A1 quality - OK, so drive to the conditions. Narrow road? Slow down. Twisty road? Exercise some patience before attempting an overtaking move. Personal responsibility. Take some. It's free.	johcar (6283)
1152728	2010-11-17 00:55:00	I agree with what you said and by refering to roading improvements I was echoing what was pointed out by a member of the family of one the cyclists killed. I used to be a competative cyclist but living where I do now I use the excuse of the hills and distance as a reason not to cycle anymore. Actually on reflection I think the true reason is the road itself and how vulnerable I feel cycling on it. Be it driver attitude or the B-Train whistling passed mere millimetres from my elbow I do not know. Fact is when I see cyclists on these roads I give them the distance they deserve but other s are so impatiant. Over the weekend I witnessed overtaking that defied belief on Solid Yellow lines, the manuaver was simply to pass a vhiecle travelling at 90kph and a Bus with Passengers no less. I was driving that Bus and it happened twice. How much time was saved in such a risky game of chance? Then there was that SUV that flew passed me while I was in my Car travelling to work at 100kph on a straight piece of road that as soon as they hit the first bend they hit the picks and constantly braked for every minor corner and I caught up with them and found myself slowing for areas I would not normally do or need to. Then as soon as they saw a long straight they were off again at warp factor 10 unfortuantely for them there observation skills failed to observe a patrol car heading the opposite direction. Probably whining now about revenue gathering!!! There is no fear for losing the licence here! Over in the UK I feared getting points on my licence because it meant higher insurance premiums and risk to employment or getting employment. When I got my first ever speeding fine here in NZ (yes I made a mistake) I was annoyed with myself for putting tainting my driving record and putting my job at risk. I now realise that hey you dont need to worry!!!! Which I find unnerving to even think like that. Yet I find it so astonishing you get slapped $55 for not carrying your driving licence, no points for speed camera offences and it very hard to get demerit points for anything other than being stopped by Mr Plod for minor speeding infringements. Yes many are minor despite what has been said to the contrey.	coldfront (15814)
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