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Thread ID: 114269	2010-11-25 09:48:00	Discount Domains = Stay Away	Beretta (16094)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1156388	2010-11-25 11:31:00	I'm sorry, but I simply have trouble believing all that. I suspect much of it is true, but the way you approached it makes it seem like you're on something of a vendetta, and you're twisting the facts to suit you. In my mind, this substantially undermines your credibility, and you're unlikely to convince me otherwise. I attributed to you nothing that you didn't post; my point about Clever being responsible for most of your downtime was based on your own dates. In addition, you yourself seem to have got your date correction wrong. Note the date that this (www.beretta-online.com) was posted - July 16, and where DD appears to have first come to your attention. As you seem to be a tad happy on the edit button, I'll quote that below too: For almost the last 24 hours, my site has been inaccessible. I apologise for this. The fault was caused by the dishonest, misleading, underhanded, unfair, greedy and arguably illegal actions of my domain name service provider, Clever Internet. I will not bore you with the details, but I have been busy for most of my waking time since the problem began, trying to get it resolved. Given how incredibly easy these comments are to substantiate as true, I run absolutely no risk publishing them here. We now return you to our scheduled broadcast. Your own comment: Glenn says: July 16, 2010 at 7:42 pm There may be some further downtime in the near future. it will not be for long. I am changing domain name servers. I'd love to know how you were posting articles on your site, and your readers were posting coments (all the way up until July 21st in fact), when your site was supposedly offline. Your "Downtime - The Long Story" was posted on August 6th. Hate to break it to you, but your own blog seems to be submitting an awful lot of evidence against you here. Your original post, for posterity: OK, we’re up and running again. For those of you who are just glad that the site is up again, there’s no need to read what follows. For those who are curious as to what went wrong, here’s an explanation of why the website, blog and podcast have been unavailable for so long recently. First, some of you might not have websites and so you might not be aware of some of the terminology, so I’ll start out by explaining two terms. Firstly, a web host is someone who provides a server (i.e. a hard drive out there that provides disc space) where the documents, pictures etc on a website are located. This is a physical location and it has an IP address, which is a series of numbers that identifies that location. Secondly, a domain name host (often just called a domain host) is a provider of domain name services. You order your domain name from them (or you can transfer your domain name to them) and then at their website you log in and edit the settings for your domain name. Most importantly, you enter the IP address of your web host, so that your domain name points to your web host. That way, when somebody types your domain name into their web browser, it directs them to your web host so they can view the pages that make up your website. A number of web hosting providers also provide domain name servers, enabling you to get both services from the same company and avoid having to deal with more than one company. OK, now here’s what happened. My webhosting was once provided by a company called Clever Internet. But when I started running a podcast, my monthly traffic skyrocketted, so I upgraded to their most expensive plan that I could afford, the “Cleverest Plan.” But still, that only allowed me 8 gigabytes of traffic per month, and due to people downloading podcast episodes, my traffic was substantially exceeding that. OK, I needed a new web host, no big deal. This was a good thing, as it showed that people wanted what I had on offer. A friend who does professional web hosting made me a pretty good offer. However, he doesn’t provide domain name services. OK, that’s not a problem, because I can just keep using Clever Internet for domain name services, I thought to myself. I was paying separately for domain name services in addition to web hosting services with Clever Internet. This is where things start getting interesting. In February 2010, I contacted Clever Internet and told them that when my web hosting services expire (July), I did not wish to renew them. I explained that my website is now going to be hosted elsewhere (i.e. on the server run by my friend). However, I added that I would continue to use them for my domain name. I got a reply from them indicating that this was fine. So I uploaded all my files at my new web host, deleted the files from my old web host, and logged in to my domain name management control panel and updated my settings, so that the domain name now pointed to my new web host’s server. OK, everything was set. I was using domain name services with Clever Internet but I was no longer using their web hosting, and my web hosting with them would expire in July. In the meantime my new web hosting was up and running. The transition had gone flawlessly! Since that time I renewed my domain name for another year, and I also purchased two more domain names through Clever Internet, for websites that I am hosting with my new web host. These too were working perfectly. But…. Then it all turned to custard. In mid-July all of my domain names stopped working. Nobody could reach any of my three websites. The first thing I did was to contact my web host. Maybe the server had crashed or something. But no, the server was fine, and my web host advised me that there appeared to be a problem with the DNS (domain name system). So I tried to login to my domain name host (via my control panel at Clever Internet). Uh-oh. “Your account has been disabled.” Disabled? Why? Had I failed to pay for my domain name renewal? I double checked. I was up to date with my payments. I sent an urgent email off to Clever Internet asking them what had gone wrong, and urging them to re-enable my account immediately. A day later I got a reply back, advising me that the account had been terminated by billing, and so the query would be forwarded on to them. The next day I got an email advising me that they closed my account because they had received a cancellation notice from me in February. Attached was a copy of the email that I had sent them in February, which said that I no longer needed web hosting services from them, but I would continue to need domain name services from them. I read and re-read the email I had sent, to make sure I had written it correctly. Yep, it was as clear as anything. Oh no, they had just misread the email, and they had mistakenly cut off both services! I immediately replied to Clever Internet and pointed out what looked like an obvious blunder on their part. I again asked for them to immediately re-enable my account so that I could log in to my control panel as before and so that my domain name services would continue (I was, after all, still paying for them). Next I got an email in rather broken English from the same person person at Clever Internet, which said: “Please note domain names are just names. Without hosting plan, you can’t to access your websites and emails.” The rest of the email made it roughly clear what this person was saying. In short, the message was: “Yes, you still have those domain names, but you’ve cancelled your web hosting services, so there’s no website to view.” What? How could they have so completely misunderstood what I wanted? I didn’t want my website to be hosted with them. And why would they prevent me from accessing my domain name settings, whether I had web hosting with them or not? What ensued next was a string of back and forth emails. I was working much harder than anyone should have to work to get this person to understand the following English sentences: “I do not need your web hosting services and I do not want them. Forget about web hosting services. That is not the issue here. Back in February I told you that I would still need domain name services, and now that you have closed my access to my control panel, I can no longer access my domain name settings and nobody can view my websites, which are hosted elsewhere.” I know there’s a stereotype about IT companies employing people who have very poor English skills in a role that requires frontline communication with English speaking customers, but unfortunately that stereotype is a perfect reflection of the situation I found myself in. Eventually the penny dropped and the customer services representative understood me. But the reply was totally unexpected. This person now told me that even though I purchased and managed my domain names through them on a separate billing cycle from my web host services, and even though these had always been separate services in the past (and appear to be advertised as separate services at their website even now), I would not be able to access my control panel and I could not use any domain name services unless I also purchased web hosting services through them. Wow. I’m not even sure if that’s legal, and there was certainly no warning. Right back in February when I told them what I needed, they knew that they could not deliver (simply because of this rule they had), yet they continued to allow me to pay them. They made me wait until it was too late to plan in advance, then they let my websites disappear from the public eye. This is what should have happened back in February: Me: “Hey, I’m not going to renew my web hosting, because my website is now hosted elsewhere.” Them: “Oh, OK.” Me: “But I’m still going to keep my domain name hosting with you guys.” Them: “Sorry, we can’t do that. We have this rule that says you have to have your web hosting with us too, otherwise you can’t use our domain name services.” Me: “Really? Gee, that’s kinda weird.” Them: “Yeah, but watcha gonna do? So anyway yeah, if you’re going to get a new webhost, you’ll need to get a new domain name service provider before your web hosting subscription expires with us. Otherwise your website will disappear for the time after your web hosting ends with us and the time you get a new DNS service provider. You wouldn’t want that.” Me: “No I sure wouldn’t. OK, I’ll sign up with a new domain name service provider. Bye.” But no, that would be too helpful. After the frustrating attempt at basic English communication, topped off with this news, I was furious. I rather pointedly told them how unfair and underhanded I thought this was, to spring this on me at the last second when I had already made advance preparations months ago to avoid exactly this problem. There was nothing else for it, I signed up with a new domain name service provider. Transferring my .co.nz addresses to them was free, but it cost about $40 to transfer the .com domain name (i.e. the address of this website) to them, and it takes a few days. There were a few other conversations that have transpired between me and my former domain name service provider, all of which (yes, all) were a matter of them making further suggestions and comments that made me think that after all this they are still unclear about what was being discussed in the first place. My websites disappearing was plainly and simply the fault of Clever Internet. They may appear to present a New Zealand website, but you are dealing with people who may or may not understand conversational English, who in some circumstances withhold information knowing that doing so could inconvenience you greatly, and whose customer service is sorely lacking in general. Clever Internet: Stay away. A New Saga… However, Clever internet are not the primary reason that my site has stayed down for so long. Things only got worse on the 22nd of July when I attempted to transfer my domain name to a new company, Discount Domains. Aplus.net (the domain name registrar for Discount Domains) appeared to screw up their email that they were meant to send me so that the domain name transfer could go ahead. Instead of the authorisation link that Discount Domains expected Aplus to send me, the email contained references to an unknown account at some website affiliated with them that I needed to log into in order to approve the transfer (but they didn’t tell me which website this was, or how to log in). Discount Domains here in New Zealand then advised that they actually don’t know how the transfer process works (apparently it has changed recently) and that they didn’t know what the email meant, and then Aplus ignored my emails to their support team for about a week, followed by an activation link that had already expired when they sent it to me and at least two failed attempts to send it again (seriously, how hard is it for an IT trained person to send an email?), all the while knowing that my site was down. They advised Discount Domains that they had sent a new link through to me (on two separate occasions), and after eight days of waiting, I eventually gave up on them both and approach a new domain host, Freeparking. I requested the transfer to them, and within an hour or so I got an email containing an activation link to authorise the domain name transfer. That’s how it’s done. Oh, and then a few days later, Aplus got in touch with me asking me to authorise the domain name transfer to them. Just wow. Aplus (and Discount Domains), by their own admission made a bunch of mistakes and got their service wrong, and as a result my site and blog was down about ten days longer than it needed to be. Lost traffic, broken links removed, people stopped visiting, the podcast disappeared from the iTunes store, prospective employers in the humanities couldn’t view the site/blog (and may even have fairly wondered whether I was telling the truth about even having it). It was bad. I’ve approached Discount Domains for a refund and they’re also considering my request for compensation. The transfer to my current domain registrar didn’t go quite as quickly or smoothly as hoped. However, the reason for this is that my former domain registrar, who I then discovered was a Chinese company called Webnic, who is represented by Signetique, who is represented by Clever Internet (phew, talk about Russian dolls!), was dragging its feet, leaving the request for authorisation just sitting there for a few days before approving it (because hey, it’s not like that bunch of nitwits hadn’t screwed me around enough already), so I can hardly blame Freeparking for that. This is the net effect of all of the above: So the last little while has consisted of me banging my head against walls making very simple and clear requests while incompetent clowns ran around randomly pressing keys on keyboards and playing with silly string. But we got there. Throughout the process I’ve been seriously shocked at the lack of focus on service in some companies that provide internet hosting services. It has been genuinely appalling to see that everywhere I went, there was some catch: an unfair and possibly illegal policy to discourage customers dealing with other companies, a simple lack of procedure for a commonplace transaction, apparent ignorance and/or lack of concern over how long processes take – I suppose the reason they get away with it is that they are all banking on the fact that the companies are all about as bad as each other. Still, all things considered I’d say that Freeparking had their game together better than the others: At least they managed to enact the transfer from their end within hours, in spite of the fact that they weren’t really sure about what the customer should expect to happen next (or more when they should expect it to happen). That said, we’re back. We now return you to your regular programme!	Erayd (23)
1156389	2010-11-25 11:38:00	I'm sorry, but I simply have trouble believing all that. Well I cannot help that. In addition, you yourself seem to have got your date correction wrong.Well, I have all the correspondence. I'd love to know how you were posting articles on your site, and your readers were posting coments (all the way up until July 21st in fact), when your site was supposedly offline.Because Clever Internet allowed me to make use of their service in the interim, after I complained about it being cut off. Or are you suggesting that DD actually did get the transfer done right away, and I just made up the story about them not doing so? What's that? I didn't mention that earlier? Well that's because I was complaining about DD's service. See, you've just invented a theory about my relationship with Clever Internet. Why? You didn't even ask, you just assumed I was lying. I know they were the reason I initially went offline and I have said so elsewhere, but then they gave me a bit of time while I arranged the transfer, but once I informed them that the transfer was requested... *poof* It was in Discount Domains' hands for a month while they monkeyed around with it. Discount Domains are the reason I was down for that long. You can come up with theories about me inventing this until the cows come home, but why would I even bother?	Beretta (16094)
1156390	2010-11-25 11:43:00	I researched your original post before replying at all, as in my experience new users who post walls of text here complaining about something often aren't telling the whole story. In this case, well, no surprises there - there was a whole lot more going on than simply what was posted. As someone who likes a good debate, and hates spin-doctoring, I decided to reply. I've claimed nothing that wasn't backed up by your own blog. The multiple inconsistencies in your story make me disinclined to believe you entirely, although as I said earlier I suspect many parts of the story have some truth to them. At the end of the day, I think we'll simply have to agree to disagree. You've said your piece, I've said mine, and it doesn't seem like they can be readily reconciled.	Erayd (23)
1156391	2010-11-25 11:47:00	"multiple inconsistencies"? The only inconsistency was the date, which I have checked, admitted and corrected. The rest is fine - no inconsistencies at all. Which part do you think isn't true? It's not like this is just a matter of opinion. These are events that took place. You weren't involved and I was, so if there's anything you're not clear about, I'm happy to inform you, but there are no inconsistencies here. You were trying to find a way of calling me a liar for no good reason, which is most uncivil. It's all true.	Beretta (16094)
1156392	2010-11-25 11:53:00	I'm leaving it at that; I've said what I think needs saying, and the points I think need clarification are pretty clearly spelled out above. As I said, I think we'll simply have to disagree. Answer them or not, it's up to you - but I won't be replying if you do, it's become clear to me that any reply I'm likely to make would probably just be repeating myself, and I think you want to get the last word here - be my guest, it's yours if you want it :rolleyes:.	Erayd (23)
1156393	2010-11-25 11:59:00	"Answer them or not" Ummm, I already did, in post #12. *shrug*	Beretta (16094)
1156394	2010-11-25 12:18:00	That was far more entertaining than I had anticipated. Internet smackdown by Bletch!	roddy_boy (4115)
1156395	2010-11-25 18:34:00	I've been using Discount Domains for several years and have never, never, had any cause for complaint. They are very reliable, courteous, prompt and accurate. I have always been informed of progress and changes. So - despite the entertaining defensive diatribe Beretta - I shall ignore your advice!	coldot (6847)
1156396	2010-11-25 19:42:00	I've looked through the history on the blog and it seems that the "Stay Away" is more appropriately applied to the other parties: ... my former domain registrar, a Chinese company called Webnic, represented by Signetique, represented by Clever Internet was dragging its feet, leaving the request for authorisation just sitting there before approving it... (Around 7 August approximately.) So it didn't actually happen until the original registrar released the domain, no doubt after receiving and ignoring several requests. The lesson seems to be "register your domains with a local company".	coldot (6847)
1156397	2010-11-26 00:32:00	As I've said, yes the reason I initially went offline was my former registrar. However, the transfer process to DD was meant to take a few days. There definitely wasn't a problem with my former registrar releasing the domainname to my new host. The problem was that Discount Domain (blaming it's own wholesaler) didn't know how do do such a transfer at the time. They said this, and said that there had been a change in process. If anyone really thinks that nigh on four weeks is acceptable for a process that should take a few days, then sure I was "smacked down." The trouble is, nobody actually thinks that.	Beretta (16094)
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