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Thread ID: 115417	2011-01-17 07:49:00	Hu: Blames The US Dollar	SurferJoe46 (51)	PC World Chat

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1170492	2011-01-17 07:49:00	BEIJING—Chinese President Hu Jintao emphasized the need for cooperation with the U.S. in areas from new energy to space ahead of his visit to Washington this week, but he called the present U.S. dollar-dominated currency system a "product of the past" and highlighted moves to turn the yuan into a global currency. "We both stand to gain from a sound China-U.S. relationship, and lose from confrontation," Hu said in written answers to questions from The Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post. Hu acknowledged "some differences and sensitive issues between us," but his tone was generally compromising, and he avoided specific mention of some of the controversial issues that have dogged relations with the U.S. over the past year or so—including U.S. arms sales to Taiwan that led to a freeze in military relations between the world's sole superpower and its rising Asian rival. On the economic front, Hu played down one of the main U.S. arguments for why China should appreciate its currency—that it will help China tame inflation. That is likely to disappoint Washington, which accuses China of unfairly boosting its exports by undervaluing the yuan, making its products cheaper overseas. The topic is expected to be high on U.S. President Barack Obama's agenda when he meets Hu at the White House on Wednesday. Hu also offered a veiled criticism of efforts by the U.S. Federal Reserve to stimulate growth through huge bond purchases to keep down long-term interest rates, a strategy that China has loudly complained about in the past as fueling inflation in emerging economies, including its own. He said that U.S. monetary policy "has a major impact on global liquidity and capital flows and therefore, the liquidity of the U.S. dollar should be kept at a reasonable and stable level." Hu's responses reflect a China that has grown more confident in recent years—especially in the wake of the global financial crisis, from which it emerged relatively unscathed. Hu reiterated China's belief that the crisis reflected "the absence of regulation in financial innovation" and the failure of international financial institutions "to fully reflect the changing status of developing countries in the world economy and finance." He called for an international financial system that is more "fair, just, inclusive and well-managed."	SurferJoe46 (51)
1170493	2011-01-17 12:20:00	Yes, the Chinese government never answers any question honestly. But no governments do anyway. I think long term the Chinese want their currency to be a reserve currency so they will let the yuan float, but it will be a few years yet. The US was partly to blame before for not saving and sucking in Chinese loans. And now with QEII they are devaluing their currency to increase US exports. This weeks visit by HU will be interesting, but Obama will be too weak, and their will be a whole lot of well meaning talk, but no action. China is destroying manufacturing in many developing countries, this can't go on.	Digby (677)
1170494	2011-01-17 17:00:00	I think China's day in the sun of cheap labor is coming to a halt . Quite a few US companies are finding that the labor pool is getting too expensive and a new exodus to Indochina and even Pakistan is happening for semi- and high-skilled labor, after the appropriate training of course . Check this out - Some US industrial organizations are finding it more viable to actually return to US soil (better govt stability, fewer kidnappings and ransoms, fewer language interactive problems) and since they are re-hiring people to work in their factories on a 'part-time' basis, they don't have to pay for the full safety net of employee's health insurance and other socially responsible employer-provided benefits . People here are so hungry for work that they accept this part-time work as opposed to not working at all . I think China's problem was to let people from the farms and out-lands come to the city to find employment, destroying several sacred dragons at the same time: 1) Simple farmers and other persons saw the potential wealth in the big industrial areas and won't return to the farms after they've seen it 2) Working on products that they cannot afford nor have access to, destined to be shipped to other places, makes them yearn for their own possession of these items 3) The low wages they originally earned are now being protested when they find the true value of their labors and the workers want a larger piece of the action for their own pockets 4) Labor unions are starting to make serious inroads to the labor pool, and although the Chinese gov't won't talk about it, some union shops have been created . This will only snowball . Wasn't there some sort of recent athletic event that required the temporary hiring of tens-of-thousands of these farmers to serve the visitors, and then the Chinese gvt thought they'd simply go back to their fields and farms? Yeah - fat chance! The US heydays were in the 1950s and the obvious decline from that time period of gross prosperity has been picking up momentum . Now (and) until (and) with the current apologetic administration, growth is coming to a screeching halt from what started as bad international investments, international loans and hand-outs and all the while the greenback has been riding on a publicly-perceived notion that all is well while the emperor is walking about, commando . 'Food Inflation' and 'Energy-Inflation' is taking a serious toll and many people are just holing up, waiting for some miracle in the gvt to ease the cost of these consumables . It won't happen as far as I can tell . The last time the oil companies took the price of a gallon of gas to $3 . 00, the economy back lashed and some severe repercussions happened and millions of people lost their jobs while at the same time the cost of living took a giant spike . The gas prices dropped back to a 'more acceptable' line and things staggered to their feet again, although shaken, not stirred . NOW that the gas prices are over the tripping point of $3 . 00 a gallon ($3 . 50/gallon now) people are still quaking, but they are holding a stiff upper, and they are just waiting for a White House interdiction . Food prices are re-spiking again, and people are sorta staggering and hope that they can survive . Bank robberies are seriously UP as are fraud, strong-arm robberies and raids on food markets . This is IN the US! Bankers and store owners are subject to 'follow-home' kidnappings and robberies, if not just point blank murder in retribution for what people think is price gouging by the owners . This local phenomenon of food and energy inflation is causing riots in other countries now too - and it will only get worse . Waste and loss of laissez-faire causes gross destruction of foods as they sit on docks and in storehouses while millions go hungry ever day . Hampered by Green-rules, Ecological-laws and Political-greed, things cannot get to those who need them in a timely manner . Energy is also touted as in short supply . Rat feces! There's more than enough energy but it's use is hampered by rules that come from ivory towers and think tanks that have no real-world experience, nor sound scientific basis for their decisions . Here's how this affects China: They don't care . Not the upper crusts anyway . As long as their figurative rice bowls are full, they aren't bothered by any turmoil that happens in the trenches .	SurferJoe46 (51)
1170495	2011-01-17 17:56:00	Gee Joe You and I could talk for hours. Yes I tend to agree with you about the oil prices, and I think that huge jump in gas (petrol) prices in 2008 was what really tipped the econony into the great recession. It takes a lot of purchasing power out of the economy. What amazes me is what caused the jump. What it the oil companies or the speculators. I tend to think it was the speculators. But I'd like to know why speculators are allowed to buy oil in the first place. Surely if an oil company produces some oil in one country, then puts it on a tanker, then takes it to say Europe or the USA then refines it and takes it to the gas station. Don't the oil companies have enough money to fund the oil while its at sea ? So how or why do the oil companies sell it to speculators and then buy it back again ?	Digby (677)
1170496	2011-01-17 18:18:00	I can't follow that logic of spec-ing oil as a driver for spiking the prices . They are only (rich-wealthy) gamblers who want to ride the coat tails of the big guys . The biggest problem as I see it is that the AE has insisted - and rightly so - on the US companies paying in gold or gold-on-demand chits for the oil they sold to the US, whilst China has been very happy to take promissory notes from the US in the form of Federal Reserve Notes (our current in-hand coin of the realm) for US/Chinese transactions . These are nothing more than US Treasury-issued IOUs and now China is rustling it's feathers threatening to call the paper for gold or some other viable sort of valued comestible . This Hu visit is just a shot across the bow of the Flagship USS Treasury I'm afraid and I don't see then shooting feather pillows in future volleys . Wait and see how many pallets full of greenbacks come back to the US on a container ship for conversion to gold in the near future . That's called leveraging by proxy of the US dollar . I suspect that the US is on the cusp of a new issue for the trench people, worldwide . I call it: 'The Continental Dollar' whereby the whole North American continent will be under one coin from Canada to Mexico in defense of the Euro (€) and the hold-out Yuan (¥) . I'm looking for an apt currency sign for The Continental - perhaps an upraised center digit . Bah - what's it all matter? It's all gonna implode soon anyway .	SurferJoe46 (51)
1170497	2011-01-17 18:56:00	I think China's day in the sun of cheap labor is coming to a halt . The US heydays were in the 1950s Energy is also touted as in short supply . Rat feces! . Yes . Cause they all want to live like the grossly excessive Americans . Most countries do . Yes . Well no . The oil will run out, then there will be a **** fight over whats left . America already causes **** in countries that own it with various excuses why they are there . There's too many people .	pctek (84)
1170498	2011-01-17 21:14:00	<snip> The oil will run out, then there will be a **** fight over whats left . America already causes **** in countries that own it with various excuses why they are there . There's too many people . I can't buy that hateful rhetoric - however, since you limit energy to just oil, you might have a rather small point . But there's energy in Natural Gas and coal . Now I know that coal is looked upon with great disdain, but it can be converted into coal OIL that is both clean and takes the dependency of petroleum-based products off the OPEC table . 'Too many people' is an old saw that doesn't hold water either . The earth is very well capable of producing more than enough food for many times the population it now carries if it weren't for gross corruption and immoral stockpiles of foods that just rot or are vermin consumed and destroyed by environmental occurrences by sitting on docks and loading zones to fester in the sun and rain . Political borders and 'me first-ism' takes it's toll in deaths at much younger ages than are actuarial-y based . Blatantly blaming someone else for one's troubles is also a red herring and not fit for discussion since it spotlights that one is so mentally pilloried- and so ensconced in- and actually believes this propaganda, that it has become their sole, brain-washed catechism . Take all the middle men out of the loop (laissez-faire - as I stated) and the food can reach those who need it in a timely manner . I feel that denying culpability and therefor one's outward, 'deniest' (my word) complacency to this existing situation is tantamount to prima-facia contextualization of a roll-over mentality that just denies the real fault .	SurferJoe46 (51)
1170499	2011-01-17 21:54:00	@Surfer Joe I usually like this sort of discussion, but your post number 5 is just too out there and over the top and hard to understand. For once I agree with PCtek, there are too many people, the numbers are getting frightening and they all want a phone, an ipad and a car and western style food. The amount of arable land is finite and is easily destroyed. There is a huge price rise in food and oil coming and its going to cause a lot of trouble.	Digby (677)
1170500	2011-01-17 22:51:00	@Surfer Joe I usually like this sort of discussion, but your post number 5 is just too out there and over the top and hard to understand . For once I agree with PCtek, there are too many people, the numbers are getting frightening and they all want a phone, an ipad and a car and western style food . The amount of arable land is finite and is easily destroyed . There is a huge price rise in food and oil coming and its going to cause a lot of trouble . I wasn't directing the tirade at you - there was , er - someone else who was being snippy as usual toward me and things US . Yup - the writing's on the walls, and I don't think there's any room for finger pointing and making old saws into truths by repeating then ad-nauseum - but I haven't thought nor believed that you should be a target for what I said . I grow weary of being the fall guy by a mistake of birth, and although I am not a flag waver, it isn't endearing to constantly have someone throw that in my face . You -- I enjoy immensely and with open arms I wish to continue our 'discussion' but I may have to resort to a block on one 'someone' . Don't you agree with the waste and destruction of produce and foodstuffs? I feel the next threshold to cross is the available water, as that will be the most obvious item on everyone's lips - or NOT on their lips . Water waste takes all sorts of avenues - golf courses in formerly arid deserts like here in Las Vegas and this isn't the local people who build them or demand that they get build at the expense of drinking or irrigation water .	SurferJoe46 (51)
1170501	2011-01-21 22:15:00	A new rumbling under the ground and spoken of in hushed circles is something I mentioned about two years ago, here on F1:: Hu wants the US to go on the Chinese Yuan ( ¥ ) - and if the US doesn't or if Obama blinks, he's gonna put a 'buy/call' on all the greenbacks (US Federal Reserve Notes) that they have taken in payment for their products and produce to date . China has been sitting on huge stockpiles of worthless US paper money just so they could leverage the US economy and make a world-wide stink since the US cannot back-up the money that they have rabbited away for equivalent values in gold . This will likely result in bankrupting the US economy . mine> The US Mint - is in charge of running the ultra high speed MANN rotary printing presses for the Federal Reserve Bank (an oxymoron, if ever there was one - 'reserve' my pootah!) . China will persist in forcing the US into a new coin and that will not go over well . The US News (and Reuters) has let 'rumblings' happen in the press and then denied it that the US needs to either tie into the Euro ( € ) or create it's own 'Continental Dollar' ( Ç ) that will tie the US with Canada and Mexico as a singular coin of the realm . THAT will be interesting - but remember that the US spinmeisters here in the state-controlled press will say one thing to get everybody talking about it and then do something totally opposite and even more damaging to the US trench-dwellers (citizens) in the name of Homeland Security, which is really Martial Law .	SurferJoe46 (51)
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