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Thread ID: 115753	2011-02-02 03:40:00	NZ Election date set as Sat 26 Nov 2011	Bobh (5192)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1174615	2011-02-05 01:43:00	I can't say I am enamoured with FPP, but it is streets ahead of MMP as practiced in NZ, that has produced some of the worst and weakest governments in NZ's political history. As an electoral system, I like preferential voting, but the way it works in Australia is somewhat complicated, and works more to the party's benefit than the voter. Ireland has quite a good system, of prefential voting called the single transferable vote. If one can merely rank a maximum of 3 candidates in order of preference then this would probably give the voter a fair choice, while by and large keeping out the lunatic fringe. The most obnoxious element to my mind with the MMP in NZ is that party candidates can be both as an electorate candidate and on the party list, thus giving them 2 bites at the cherry - A sitting member should be put in the position of where they cannot be both, ie they should either take their chances as a sitting electorate candidate seeking re-election for their electorate, or alternately go on the party list. This removes the unjust situation of a party hack electorate candidate, whose electorate wish to see replaced, getting into parliament via the back door after electorate has rejected them, by the part list. Ranking MP's love this it makes them invulnerable.	KenESmith (6287)
1174616	2011-02-05 01:54:00	I think the Swiss have a form of preferential voting and they have had very stable Govt's. What got me with both L and N is when they had the chance to vote that any list member leaving the party relinquished their seat and it would go to the next one on the list.	mikebartnz (21)
1174617	2011-02-05 01:58:00	Looks like the Roy Morgan poll was taken before Key consigned Winston for life with Labour From the link I supplied:- "The result comes days after John Key ruled out New Zealand First as a possible coalition partner."	Snorkbox (15764)
1174618	2011-02-05 04:24:00	The most obnoxious element to my mind with the MMP in NZ is that party candidates can be both as an electorate candidate and on the party list, thus giving them 2 bites at the cherry - A sitting member should be put in the position of where they cannot be both, ie they should either take their chances as a sitting electorate candidate seeking re-election for their electorate, or alternately go on the party list. This removes the unjust situation of a party hack electorate candidate, whose electorate wish to see replaced, getting into parliament via the back door after electorate has rejected them, by the part list. Ranking MP's love this it makes them invulnerable. x2 But I think that some form of proportional representation is better than FPP. For 2 reasons 1 We often had more people voting for one party and the other one got it. 2 It does not give a third (new) party the chance of ever getting going, as the chances of getting one or two electorate seats is just about impossible - eg Social credit in the 70's and 80s or the New Zealand party in the 1980's. Why don't we discuss the systems used by other democracies not just Ireland and Australia ?	Digby (677)
1174619	2011-02-05 04:36:00	Of course we all have to think who might get in, not who we want to get in. Eg saying that National will bolt in (might have been true a couple of months ago) but with asset sales on the agenda, and the foreshore debacle, and NZ First rising in the polls, you can't bank on it. There are lots of people who just vote Labour because their family always has, or because they are poor and think that labour will give them another $10 a week which will solve all their problems. (A National supporter, but only just, I just wish they'd harden up, eg where is the rolling maul they promised ? Where is the vision ? what is crusher Collins doing ?) As regards Act - Rodney has blown it for them - perks buster - he has just been overseas again ! As regards Winston - don't forget his party was so disorganised that they "did not know" they had over spent on the elecion which is illegal and they did not want to pay the money back or even apoligse. As regards the Greens - stick to the environment.	Digby (677)
1174620	2011-02-05 05:11:00	There is a poll that will count to be held on the 26th Nov. :)	Snorkbox (15764)
1174621	2011-02-05 05:23:00	From the link I supplied:- "The result comes days after John Key ruled out New Zealand First as a possible coalition partner." From the Roy Morgan site www.roymorgan.com Polling was done from Jan 17/30, I would say before the consigning of Peters to the Left	Lawrence (2987)
1174622	2011-02-05 05:58:00	Of course we all have to think who might get in, not who we want to get in . Eg saying that National will bolt in (might have been true a couple of months ago) but with asset sales on the agenda, and the foreshore debacle, and NZ First rising in the polls, you can't bank on it . There are lots of people who just vote Labour because their family always has, or because they are poor and think that labour will give them another $10 a week which will solve all their problems . (A National supporter, but only just, I just wish they'd harden up, eg where is the rolling maul they promised ? Where is the vision ? what is crusher Collins doing ?) As regards Act - Rodney has blown it for them - perks buster - he has just been overseas again ! As regards Winston - don't forget his party was so disorganised that they "did not know" they had over spent on the elecion which is illegal and they did not want to pay the money back or even apoligse . As regards the Greens - stick to the environment . I'm not sure about this election . In the past I voted the reds, then the blues, this time if I don't vote it's not going to swing it or do I vote for someone else to swing it . Thing is there is going to be that main party, the blues or the reds and then they form it how they see fit . To me it seems if the blues hasn't done anything significant, maybe for larger orgs thou or if you are on very high salary . Even if you are on the former top salary tax band, with the change you don't really get a lot do you . . Taxation is incremental . You get taxed at a various diff rates, like the lowest 10k is taxed at this then from 10k to 33k maybe this %, then 33k to 70k at this %, so if you get a reduction at the top band it's quite minor unless one was getting 6 digit . . if a person was getting 72k or 75k bugger that in terms of that savings of that 2k or 5k going into tax reductions . There's been those changes, the labour law changes, but for me nothing much has changed . NZ's gap might not had closed vs Oz . They rolled out the internet investment, but I gather for most people who live in the main cities, going from ADSL to ADSL2+ was just routine and the price hasn't changed . Some may of lost or had to do other jobs given the public sector involvement and now the saying of selling assets . I just don't see it a big thing for the ordinary Joe and Jane . To me I see that as just for them to balance the books to support the really well off or those who want to set up orgs/businesses in NZ . NZders would continue to move overseas .	Nomad (952)
1174623	2011-02-05 06:02:00	To me it's like if the reds and the blues are too similar. It's pretty safe bet to say no to Winston Peters, Roger Douglas, Don Brash. If you target the middle of the bell curve then the two parties are v similar. It's a centre left and a centre right. But that diff of the two is bugger all.	Nomad (952)
1174624	2011-02-05 08:35:00	Nomad They call themselves centre left and centre right just for marketing purposes. The fact is deep down Labour like to take money off well off people give money out to low or no income people and have more government. National tend to do the opposite and have less government.	Digby (677)
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