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| Thread ID: 115849 | 2011-02-06 19:33:00 | Yet another terrible UFB article by Chris Barton @nzherald | Chilling_Silence (9) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 1175692 | 2011-02-08 23:26:00 | (Pre-note: I'm actually surprisingly calm while writing this all, having re-read this post I'm about to make 3x now over the space of an hour. No anger or emotion at all.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~ That's just it, the wholesale arm of things has done their job well (Or will have by the end of the year when 85% of the country will have access to 10m/bit and upwards ADSL2+ and VDSL2), it's the retail side of things that has not, and the international data. The international side of things is going to be an issue no matter what happens (Same southern cross cable), and likewise for the retail side, regardless of who they use for their wholesale provider. That's what the Govt is going to become, a wholesale provider, not retail, so you're still going to be dealing with the same ISP that still makes a mess of the same things in the same way (Be it Telecom Xtra, Vodafone, TelstraClear, Xnet, Slingshot etc etc) Where things have been going wrong for current ADSL / ADSL2+ services: - Bad wiring in the home - Bad wiring from the home to the node / exchange - Budget CPE causing bad throughput / disconnections - Insufficient backbone - Insufficient international bandwidth obtained by the ISP - Poor retail customer service The "insufficient backbone" is the only thing that's changing with the rollout of ADSL2+ / VDSL2 (Cabinetization), yes? Coz thats all that's new, is the national backbone right? FTTH will change the bad wiring from the node / exchange to the home (And in the home too, as it would be using Fibre not Copper, granted), but that would change regardless of if your ISP wholesaled from Chorus or a new independent non-Chorus2 Govt provider right? Which is why it seems to me that regardless of which of these wholesale providers are used, that isn't where the issue lies. So following that logic, does it matter if the current wholesale provider is used (Except on the basis of a dislike of monopolies or prior experiences), if the wholesale provider isn't where the problems lie? If a customer is experiencing disconnections, the problem is *most likely* to be: 1) Bad CPE 2) Bad wiring in the home or from the demarc 3) Retail-level ISP faults, such as with authentication Granted issues do happen at the exchange with faulty ports from time to time etc, but something like hardware failure *could* happen to any ISP, regardless of who / what / where the gear is (Such as Chorus gear in the Cabinet, or Vodafones gear in the Exchange). If a customer is experiencing poor speeds internationally, the problem is *most likely* to be: 1) They're on an oversubscribed ISP / Plan, such as we've seen time and time again Slingshot and Xnet being the biggest culprits, and yes lets not forget even I've had one hell of a time with BigTime when it was around (A terrible time in fact!) 2) They're on one of the few remaining ADSL1 exchanges that hasn't yet been upgraded, they're one of the 15% not getting ADSL2+ / VDSL2 (Or any broadband), the backbone to the exchange is overloaded which will mean their national is also going to be suffering. All of these last 5 points make absolutely no difference if the wholesale provider is going to be Chorus, the future Chorus2, or another new and as-yet unbuilt backbone, as the backbone has far, far more than ample bandwidth to cater for the increased demand (Considering Chorus made sure there was more than enough bandwidth already going to each Whisper Cabinet for FTTH, yet they're only currently running ADSL2+ / VDSL2). Seeing this new network being heralded as the be-all and end-all, of all speed and connectivity issues is a shame, it's not going to be, not much will actually change. Pricing won't, you can see that in Whangarei already: www.ubergroup.co.nz 35GB at 10m/bit for $115 Lets go with the absolute devil in this case and use Telecom who most would consider more expensive, but also the most common, 40GB including a home phone line, in the worst of places across the country is $115 ($105 in Ak / Wel / Chc). More data, potentially double to 5x the speed? The catch is you have less upload. So much for 100m/bit! However, I will concede that all things considered I could have gone about this whole thing in a *much* nicer tone, and for that, I would like to apologize to Chris. Mr Barton, if you ever do read this, please accept my sincere apologies. It's clear we *all* want better internet in NZ, we're *all* upset about how things are, and the prospects of how things could turn sour very easily. However, if I've completely missed the boat here, and you can show me how things would be significantly better by waiting an additional 6-8 years for the Govt to roll out a competing network, how we'd get either bigger caps or faster (Yeah I know, 50m/bit VDSL2 vs 100m/bit FTTH, but we're only seeing 5-10m/bit), or how the price would drop, then I'm absolutely 100% ears to listen, and would gladly eat humble pie and admit I'm wrong. Straight up. |
Chilling_Silence (9) | ||
| 1175693 | 2011-02-08 23:53:00 | However, I will concede that all things considered I could have gone about this whole thing in a *much* nicer tone, and for that, I would like to apologize to Chris. Mr Barton, if you ever do read this, please accept my sincere apologies. Not just you, but other posters like Johcar, who from a lovely anonymous position, and not knowing Chris Barton, as Juha and I do (since in my previous life as Bruce Buckman he was my boss on PC World for number of years, starting at the very beginning), felt happy to slang him off and imply a lack of ethics, no less. I doubt I've met a more ethical person than Chris Barton. But you wouldn't know that, cause to the squad of anonymous posters here he's just a journalist to have a go at cause you don't like what he said. You don't have to agree with his view of the broadband situation, but the tone of a lot what was said in this thread was vicious and cheap and mean spirited. So no change there then on F1. |
Biggles (121) | ||
| 1175694 | 2011-02-09 00:04:00 | Don't worry, it's not only his ethics that have been called into question here, and I find myself questioning my own motivations. I still stand by my apology to him. Surprisingly enough, this all somewhat mirrors what he's written in that article, his second bullet point for example, though not quite to the same degree. Ironic. Anyways, it's nice to see you're still around, you don't seem to post as much these days? |
Chilling_Silence (9) | ||
| 1175695 | 2011-02-09 00:05:00 | I'm hardly "anonymous", Biggles - most people here know my real name. No, I don't know Mr Barton, personally of professionally, but my understanding of the UFB issue and my interpretation of his article gives/gave me the impression that he is yet another journalist jumping on the Telecom-bashing bandwagon. Why mention Paul Reynold's salary at all? Everyone knows Mr Reynolds is paid rather well - but it's not relevant to UFB. If he is not Telecom-bashing, then I apologize. I stand by my fibre comments. |
johcar (6283) | ||
| 1175696 | 2011-02-09 01:37:00 | (Pre-note: I'm actually surprisingly calm while writing this all, having re-read this post I'm about to make 3x now over the space of an hour . No anger or emotion at all . ) ~ Thats good news the meds are really working (kidding kidding) That's just it, the wholesale arm of things has done their job well (Or will have by the end of the year when 85% of the country will have access to 10m/bit and upwards ADSL2+ and VDSL2), Well thats highly debatable, MOST DSL2 users cant reach 10m/bit speeds and I am one of them (central CHCH), and so are you if I remember correctly? That's what the Govt is going to become, a wholesale provider, not retail, Thats sounds awesome, so the NZ government is buying back the ENTIRE local loop, exchange Equipment, Dslams, backhaul etc? . Ow wait thats not really correct is it? Is your statement misleading? However, if I've completely missed the boat here, and you can show me how things would be significantly better by waiting an additional 6-8 years for the Govt to roll out a competing network, how we'd get either bigger caps or faster (Yeah I know, 50m/bit VDSL2 vs 100m/bit FTTH, but we're only seeing 5-10m/bit), or how the price would drop, then I'm absolutely 100% ears to listen, and would gladly eat humble pie and admit I'm wrong . Straight up . Remember also DSL drops off over distance very quickly with appalling up speeds, its almost insulting comparing it to vastly superior FTTD . So whats the alternative do nothing? let Telecom have another 10 years rapeing the country? . Do nothing as its to hard and costly? |
Battleneter2 (9361) | ||
| 1175697 | 2011-02-09 01:53:00 | There are private companies that don't do this??? :horrified Yes. Ive even worked for companies that do everything in their power to ensure the customer isn't screwed over. |
Metla (12) | ||
| 1175698 | 2011-02-09 01:58:00 | This thread should be deleted. It's embarrassing. This thread is awesome.:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: Haven't seen one like it for ages. Damn, when was the last time Bruce rocked in and laid the smackdown on the heavy hitters? Smells like old days. |
Metla (12) | ||
| 1175699 | 2011-02-09 02:04:00 | Yes . Ive even worked for companies that do everything in their power to ensure the customer isn't screwed over . Yep our company motto: We arent here to make money just friends And if wasn't completely rooted before it will be when we finish . |
prefect (6291) | ||
| 1175700 | 2011-02-09 03:23:00 | Chilling Silence, I completely agree with you. It's not the same telecom it once was. The >$1 billion cabinetisation investment happened long before any mention of UFB, if I remember correctly, so it is not true to say that Telecom has only 'shaped up' in order to be part of the UFB proposal. I do not have shares in Telecom. I did until December, when I sold them - because I don't think Telecom's profit from UFB will fully replace their massive $2 billion + per year from their fixed line copper services which will not be around for long I suspect (due to the uptake of VOIP). |
george12 (7) | ||
| 1175701 | 2011-02-09 04:18:00 | I think its great how naive some people are.:p And yes, Its the same old Telecom. |
Metla (12) | ||
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