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Thread ID: 118934	2011-06-27 08:42:00	Power Surge Protector	bk T (215)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1212608	2011-06-28 02:01:00	Almost :) Quick Demo -- one of my workshop UPS's Simulated power Cut (www.youtube.com) - now times that by nine, usually all out of sync :waughh: :lol: PC's are fine and can keep running even with no main power on average 10 -15 minutes. Three of the plugs are Battery/Surge, the other three are surge alone. Normally I only have the PC and monitor on Battery/Surge - lasts longer on battery that way.	wainuitech (129)
1212609	2011-06-28 03:00:00	Not true, you dont have to spend many hundreds of $$ to get reasonable protection. Its more to the point if the manufacture will honor their product. I use UPS's that cost around $200-$300 and they work fine. isnt $200-$300 actually "hundreds " :p Agreed, you would be better off buying a UPS The report I saw: Power surge devices were sent to Test Labs for evaluation & the cheap ones failed miserably . The ONLY 2 worth buying were approx $150 & $200. The cheap ones where proven to be near worthless against power surge Read the fine print on these $75,000 warranties & what is required for a claim. Good luck actually making a successfull claim against a US (or Asian) based companies. Going to sent you blown PC overseas so they can evaluate it then ?? ha DSE certainly wont pay you out. Name Brand devices like APC may be better in this regard as they do have local authorised service agents, who may be able to access claims localy(??)	1101 (13337)
1212610	2011-06-28 04:27:00	isnt $200-$300 actually "hundreds " :p Agreed, you would be better off buying a UPS Yes it is a couple of hundreds, thats why I said "many Hundreds", But I as referring to the comment by Iantech "An UPS is good, but they are expensive $500 - $700 for one with enough grunt to supply enough power to allow you to power down a machine with a 650W or higher PSU" While more expensive UPS's are good for business and high drain devices, for a home user the $200 -$300 ones work fine . In a power cut even a high drain device running a 650W would take a few minutes to drain the Battery . Depends on what you are doing really, even a top end gaming machine, would be fine, its simply to supply enough power to safely shut down NOW , not wait 15 - 20 minutes and then think about it . One of my servers runs a 650W - we had a 10 - 15 minute power outage a few years back, it never shut down due to lack of battery power . There are many different types of UPS & pricing - you select the one for your needs .	wainuitech (129)
1212611	2011-06-28 05:33:00	In hamilton the power supply seems pretty stable, in the 12 years I've been in my house I can only remember about 3 power cuts and no surges, although I'm not sure I'd actually notice. The only power damage I've ever experienced in all that time was caused by.... my UPS ! It failed and took the 5 port GigE switch with it. Currently I'm considering myself wether to invest in a new one or not, mainly because I occasionally leave a pc running an unattended for a couple of days. My old one only had a timer that could be set to shut down the PC when the power went off, I'd rather it triggered from a battery low condition. Do they do this? I think surge protection is probably not needed in most urban areas, especially given the comments above, but if you live where power cuts are likely then a UPS could save you some grief. I've also used the one I had to power a lamp during a power outage, 8W halogen bulb runs forever off any old UPS :)	dugimodo (138)
1212612	2011-06-28 07:27:00	I agree pretty much for what you are saying WT, but there are to many varibles . A "home user" cannot be put in one group as there are so many uses for the home user . A home user who browses the internet and does emails, sure a little UPS for a few hundred bucks is fine . But a home user with a gaming machine, graphics or video editing machine for example who has high usage, a UPS for a few hundred will not be sufficient . A "business user" is what? Most of my business users do internet, emails, work, excel, finance packages, payroll etc, none of which are high usage and could get away with a 650VA UPS, but I also have newspaper editors and graphic designers, their machines wouldnt last 10 seconds on 650VA . Here is my logic for what I stated . . . A 650VA is rated at 390W which is stated will last 5 minutes under full load . Ok if you have an older machine with a 350-400W PSU or has a low loading point . A 1000VA is rated at 600W A 1500VA is rated 900W - this gives me the reserve I need for my system with a 650W PSU under full load to save any open files and shut down . I initially put a 1KVA on my system, each time I put it under full loading it drew to much power out of the UPS and it tried to shut my system down . A network server spends most of its time idling serving files, they have a small loading, so yep, it would and they do keep powered for some time . I use 1KVA UPS on the network/domain servers I maintain . Gives at least 20 minutes reserve . So just to quote WT There are many different types of UPS & pricing - you select the one for your needs . Spot On, not a truer word said . :thumbs:	Iantech (16386)
1212613	2011-06-28 08:31:00	The formula provided is perfectly fine, and accurate and will work . But I work on a lot simpler one :) "If" theres a power cut or sustained power problems, and a person has no UPS backup the PC will more than likely simply crash - stopping what ever they were doing and possibly corrupting data - So if gaming its lost anyway where they were at . With the UPS as I mentioned previously "safely shut down NOW , not wait 15 - 20 minutes and then think about it . " OR finish the stage in the game :D I actually had a customers PC do that last week, they had some sort of power problem, a BAD brownout - most of the lights went right down very low so she said, only just going and no more, very faint glow - the TV , DVD stereo all shut down, she said the LEDS on them were flickering like they were trying to go . She told me it went on like that for approx 20 minutes - they ended up getting he candles out . The daughters Laptop was fine, as that switched over to its own battery, but the PC crashed and thats why I was there - fixing the damage the brownout had caused . End of the day, a basic UPS is better than a straight surge protection - so both on the right track / Thinking :thumbs:	wainuitech (129)
1212614	2011-06-28 21:10:00	I consider it a necessity.Just run the pc,screen and modem through it. In the past year,in the mornings especially, it has been clicking/beeping on and off. Looks like they've fixed the power problem now,but it would have been very annoying to have the pc going down.	Neil McC (178)
1212615	2011-06-29 04:31:00	I think there is a need to clarify the terminology here, a surge is a voltage increase that lasts for several cycles (or more) and to protect against that you need to have a device that can either absorb a lot of energy or one that is able to disconnect your equipment from the supply until the excess voltage condition passes. I would say that all cheap-ish "surge protectors" are in fact little more than spike protectors, if that. They contain MOVs (metal oxide varistors) that conduct heavily once their voltage threshold is exceeded, but MOVs have a defined life in terms of how many spikes thay can absorb and once that is used up all protection is gone, but you won't know when that has happened! The professional filter I install for my industrial clients has 13 heavy duty MOVs and a surge rating of 20kA for up to 20 microseconds. It contains a massive choke (preceded by six MOVs, shared between line and neutral, and neutral and ground) to slow the rise of voltage, then two large HV caps of about 5 microfarads each shared P-N and N-E to resonate at 50Hz and keep the mains waveform honest, along with another six MOVs on the output of the choke, and one more MOV that lights up an LED when the last element of protection has died to let you know it is time to buy a new filter. That is not the ultimate protection either, it is simply better than average To truly protect against voltage surges amd mini outages, you need a UPS that can detect the over-voltage as it starts to rise (meaning millisecond response times) and switch over the power before any damage can occur. Ideally that means a full time on-line type that fully isolates the computer from the mains. On very rare occasions I hear mine click in and out as an event goes past, and if the lights flicker, it was a mini-outage, if they don't it was a spike. One cycle of the mains lasts 20mS and a multi-cycle surge is going to throw a lot of energy at your computer, and as for lightning protection? Forget it. So, those cheap "surge protectors" offer little more than comfort and conscience protection, and you can't tell when they have stopped protecting either. A real incident (like car VS powerpole and some broken lines) will still kill your computer and personally I'd invest in a decent quality UPS and stick your "surge" filter on the input, it won't do any harm there and it might even help. Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
1212616	2011-06-29 04:44:00	Thanks Billy - that makes really good sense (I think!). I have two APC UPS units protecting the two desktop PCs here - I just take a risk with my laptop. When I bought my plasma TV, I got sucked in by the shop and bought a rather expensive surge protector junction box. What do you think we should do with expensive stereo gear and TVs? Is there any point in having a surge protector for them? In a number of our earthquakes, we have had the power go out completely and stay out for some time; on other occasions the lights have dimmed quite significantly and then come back to full brightness. Is it important to be protected against those events? Do you have any idea about what is likely to have happened to the surge protector junction box - it still works, but can it stand more hits do you think?	John H (8)
1212617	2011-06-29 05:08:00	Billy nailed it with the following sentence: To truly protect against voltage surges amd mini outages, you need a UPS that can detect the over-voltage as it starts to rise (meaning millisecond response times) and switch over the power before any damage can occur. Ideally that means a full time on-line type that fully isolates the computer from the mains. On very rare occasions I hear mine click in and out as an event goes past, and if the lights flicker, it was a mini-outage, if they don't it was a spike. Our UPS's here, do exactly that. When the power drops and the lights dim, thats known as a brownout - different to a power cut because while the power is still there is not at its normal supply. A good UPS will detect any power fluctuations, up or down, spikes, surges, brownouts and the battery kicks in till the power is stable again. In the event of a power outage its not generally the power cut that causes the damage (blowing components etc), its when it comes back on, it can come back with more than normal, thus causing as john n stated "then come back to full brightness".	wainuitech (129)
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