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Thread ID: 116729	2011-03-17 20:59:00	Where is our future?	bk T (215)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1187063	2011-03-19 20:52:00	Have a look at nationaldebtclocks.com National Debt ( ie Combined Government, ) New Zealand - Approx $NZ183 Billion or $41,805 per citizen Australia - Aprox $A121 Billion or $5428 per citizen Ireland - Euro 97 Billion or Euro 27,750 per citizen but It is The level Govt and Banking Debt that has driven Ireland into the IMF and EU Rescue Package Greece - Approx Euro 324 Billion or Euro 28750 per citizen. Italy - approx Euro 1.86 Trillion or Euro 30850 per person Spain - approx euro 569 Billion or Euro 12377 per person Portugal - approx Euro 145 Billion or euro 13512 per person Germany - approx 1.86 Trillion Euros or Euro 22327 per person UK - Pds Stg 1 Trillion or Pds Stg 16168 USA - US$ 14.28 Trillion or US$45,957 How serious is the debt, for most very, if the economy is not sufficiently strong enough to pay the interest and clear the debt over time - for many Governments it is revolving credit, ie debt is not cleared it is recycled. . ROTFL $183Bn You and that rubbish site are getting VERY confused between government debt and external debt, NZ government debt is NOT I repeat NOT $183 billion lol, $183 Bn is NZ external debt dumb asses (I mean them not you). So they are comparing Aus government debt to NZ external debt....goooooooood one! NZ government Debt is currently around $50-60bn www.photius.com Australian External debt = Higher than NZ (%GPD) Australain Public debt = Lower than NZ (%GDP) The internet is full of craap, cross check your links It would be nice if you could check and acknowledge the mistake for other readers of this thread, as this thread is all about government debt.	Battleneter2 (9361)
1187064	2011-03-19 21:05:00	New Zealand - Approx $NZ70 Billion or $16,279 per citizen Australia - Aprox $A121 Billion or $5428 per citizen Ireland - Euro 97 Billion or Euro 27,750 per citizen but It is The level Govt and Banking Debt that has driven Ireland into the IMF and EU Rescue Package Greece - Approx Euro 324 Billion or Euro 28750 per citizen. Italy - approx Euro 1.86 Trillion or Euro 30850 per person Spain - approx euro 569 Billion or Euro 12377 per person Portugal - approx Euro 145 Billion or euro 13512 per person Germany - approx 1.86 Trillion Euros or Euro 22327 per person UK - Pds Stg 1 Trillion or Pds Stg 16168 USA - US$ 14.28 Trillion or US$45,957 Ken Fixed the NZ figure I am guessing very high after recent borrowing, its prob more like 60 even after 10 for the earthquake, but put 70 as to not sugar coat it. Not sure of the quality of your other figures, Ireland is wrong off the top of my head, Australia looks about right, although the Aus government has been borrowing heavily over the last few years so could be higher.	Battleneter2 (9361)
1187065	2011-03-20 02:13:00	noir.bloomberg.com FYI came back and did some more googling. As of December 2010 NZ sovereign debt(what the NZ government owes) was NZ$58.55 billion, or 30.9 percent of gross domestic product. Bit of a difference from the massive NZ$183 billion that stupid site states ah Ken lol	Battleneter2 (9361)
1187066	2011-03-20 07:31:00	There's govt debt, local govt debt, and then the debt of businesses and individuals. In some parts of the country the burden of local govt debt exceeds the share of govt level debt. We're being screwed, by our national level poiliticians and our local body politicians. You do have to wonder what happens once local authorities start defaulting on their debts... does your sewerage system and water reticulation suddenly belong to Kuwaiti oil men?	Paul.Cov (425)
1187067	2011-03-20 08:00:00	National Debt Government debt is money owed by any level of government; either central government, federal government, municipal government or local government. Funnily enough, not only what it is owed to Foreigners, but also what has been borrowed from citizens of New Zealand has to be repaid. NZ Foreign Debt; The latest RBNZ figures are for September 2010, listed in Dec 2010 - NZs total Overseas Debt was $NZ 220 Billion or 132% of GDP of which at that time 16.6 % of GDP was the Government's, since then it has got worse. Like the National Debt - This external debt, whether Govt or Corporate has to be repaid, and the Nations ability to meet this combined account affects the exchange rate. According to Battlenetter 2 - NZ has nothing to worry about. What is his source of information to disprove the National Debt Clock figures, because they are fairly accurate for most of the other countries quoted, and the most recent RBNZ published figures are as at September 2010, some 5 months ago. The difference between external debt and internal debt, is that external debt has a "greater" bearing on the exchange rate, but it all has to be repaid, and the level of total debt adversely affects the economy. Well not everyone is quite so optimistic as Battlenetter 2. Quote Hansard Vol 662 Page 10452 www.parliament.nz Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance) : Yes, and I will explain that just for the benefit of the member, who seems to want to make a significant problem worse. Last year the OECD said that New Zealand had “one of the OECD’s highest levels of foreign debt, the result of sustained and sometimes large current account deficits that reflect a long period of unbalanced growth”. By the time this Government was elected, simply servicing that external debt was costing over $13 billion, which was more than $6,000 per household, per year. That is one reason why New Zealand was placed on negative credit watch following the global crisis. We just escaped a downgrade, a sharp lift in interest rates, and a deepening of the recession, because of the responsible approach taken in last year’s Budget. Hon David Cunliffe: When will the Minister make it clear to New Zealanders that of the total external debt, by far the majority is private debt rather than Crown debt; therefore, why is it that his solution to that problem is to cut, cut, cut needed programmes from the Government Budget rather than to address the private external debt at its core? Hon BILL ENGLISH: We have made it clear that a fair chunk of it is private debt. As it happens, over the next 4 or 5 years the growth in New Zealand’s external debt, which is currently $170 billion, will be largely driven by increases in Government borrowing, and it is forecast to reach $250 billion. That is why we want to manage Government expenditure. The member has a different view on that: he thinks that that is a low number, and therefore it does not matter if the Government runs up debt. We happen to disagree with him, and we are happy to debate the issue. An interresting article in this weekend's Business Spectator, (sorry it is Australian, but it is an excellent source of economic and busines information) makes very sobering reading for New Zealanders. www.businessspectator.com.au New Zealand has a long history of insufficient savings coupled with a predilection to spend other peoples savings by borrowing, and following the Christchurch earthquake, perhaps the country will now have to face an unpleasant period of austerity. I don't pretend for a moment that everythihing is totally rosy in Australia, but fortunately the Australian economy is very strong, in spite of the incompetent Labour Government under both Gillard and before her Rudd. This has been compounded by Labour Government in most of the States, but the voters of WA and Victoria, have seen the light and made the change, it looks like the voters of NSW will toss out the Labour Tossers at the end of March, unfortunately in Queensland there is another year to suffer the insufferable Blyth Labour Administration. The basic problem is that Labour Governments are addicted to debt, and with that taxes, and sooner or later those combined factors cause even the most one eyed Labour voters to say enough is enough - The repayment period can be quite rough, and unhappily the political blame for the hard times all too frequently falls unfairly on those solving the problem rather than those who caused it.	KenESmith (6287)
1187068	2011-03-20 09:19:00	National Debt According to Battlenetter 2 - NZ has nothing to worry about. Lol you do realise Australia's EXTERNAL DEBT is 1.2 TRILLION ah ? Thats higher % of GDP than NZ Ken oh dear and your big speil about NZ in debt when Aus is actually worse. en.wikipedia.org I Appreciate the above link is flat out wrong for NZ 200Bn is more like it agreed, I posted it for your Aussie viewing pleasure. AUSTRALIA IS DOOMED DOOMED< GET OUT WILE YOU CAN!!!! www.google.com ral-budget%2Fnational-debt-to-reach-1-trillion%2Fstory-fn5dkrsb-1225861074909&rct=j&q=austrlai%20external%20debt%20to%20reach%201.2%20 trillion&ei=9caFTZPJA5CksQPx142GAg&usg=AFQjCNEv3qu1Yv1JPls4DivULY4ytDSywA&sig2=UU5lmhspbSR32uRiH_psaA&cad=rja that's sarcasm BTW, to match your doom rubbish about NZ What no apology for confusing the EXT Debt and public Debt with that crappy link you provided earlier?. BTW I emailed that site and pointed out that horrendous error.	Battleneter2 (9361)
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