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Thread ID: 118010	2011-05-15 23:21:00	PAYE - How to reduce costs - A suggestion	woc (13210)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1202343	2011-05-15 23:21:00	The following is a open letter I have sent to the IRD / Minister of IRD suggesting that they provide a online PAYE service . A: Would you use such a service if it were available? B: Do you agree that the IRD should provide such a service . C: Comment on the the general idea . Open letter to IRD , Minister of IRD Dear Sir, I run a small IT company that employs two staff and has been in business for about six years . We sell and service computers and software to the general public and small businesses . It is because of my work that I am in constant contact with numerous small businesses that employ a few staff; this contact together with my own experience with IRD has made me aware of shortcomings in the IRD process . I have a suggestion that your department might want to consider in order to increase the efficiency of payments, lower the cost of compliance to businesses and lower the workload on IRD staff . A win, win solution . The IRD already have an online wage calculator and I suggest that you expand the system to become a total online PAYE system . I am aware that there are already companies offering this service but why should employers be subjected to additional costs when the IRD could provide this service at no cost . There is a major problem with computerized wages programs in that once the business stops paying for the service or updates they loss access to data . Therefore losing access to information required under the employment relations act . In addition I suggest that you could text business advising then of upcoming payments if they have not paid – as the company’s office do . We have the technology its time to use it to help business lower their compliance costs . Regards Brian Oliver	woc (13210)
1202344	2011-05-16 00:20:00	How do you see this as being any better than Xero? IRD's job is to collect taxes, not to compete with the private sector by providing accounting software. Regarding access to data if you decide to terminate the service - that is what the data export feature is there for.	Erayd (23)
1202345	2011-05-16 03:33:00	Good on you Woc but I'm not sure I understand your point. You can already file PAYE information with IRD online and pay online from your bank. What more do you need?	Winston001 (3612)
1202346	2011-05-16 04:23:00	How do you see this as being any better than Xero? IRD's job is to collect taxes, not to compete with the private sector by providing accounting software . It is not intended to be 'better' it is intended to reduce the compliance costs and reduce the work required by the department . Of course you will get a handful of software companies that have sprung up that will be disadvantaged but it is not governments job to create wealth for a few at the expense of many .	woc (13210)
1202347	2011-05-16 04:25:00	Good on you Woc but I'm not sure I understand your point. You can already file PAYE information with IRD online and pay online from your bank. What more do you need? I would like to see a free fully integrated online system for small businesses.	woc (13210)
1202348	2011-05-16 04:41:00	I would like to see small businesses pay their own way. You get what you pay for and nothing more.	DeSade (984)
1202349	2011-05-16 06:12:00	It is not intended to be 'better' it is intended to reduce the compliance costs and reduce the work required by the department. If it's not any better, then what is the point of it? Good accounts reduce auditing costs, but otherwise I don't see any fiscal benefit, and there is already plenty of accounting software available. Why should my tax dollars be spent on building and maintaining a duplicate of something that is already readily available? ...but it is not governments job to create wealth for a few at the expense of many.It's also not the government's job to waste my money by competing with the private sector to provide a service that already exists, is available for a reasonable price, and even has a few free alternatives. Maybe I'm missing something - could you clarify why you think such a thing is necessary?	Erayd (23)
1202350	2011-05-16 07:56:00	Maybe I'm missing something - could you clarify why you think such a thing is necessary? Ok I think we probably have different philosophical differences over the role of government . I don't believe the private enterprise is necessary the best . It just adds additional costs onto employers . Why should my tax dollars be spent on building and maintaining a duplicate of something that is already readily available? You are assuming that there will be an additional cost . Lets take the case of a business employing one or two staff members, doing their returns manually and filling in the monthly paper return . Someone at the IRD has to process that return into a computer . Not to mention the costs of the forms, postage etc . I suspect the the savings made would more than offset the cost of maintaining a system . I believe that the IRD already offer a subsidy to tax agents of small business and there is at least one online firm that is using that subsidy to offer a free service to small business . Therefor if they can afford to do it using a subsidy that the government already provide then you are already paying for it . Before you say then why don't business use the free existing service . History shows us that private business don't always carry on the way they start off .	woc (13210)
1202351	2011-05-16 08:11:00	You could also say that some businesses fail and get the Govt to bail them out too. But why do MY tax dollars go to do that?	Snorkbox (15764)
1202352	2011-05-16 08:48:00	Ok I think we probably have different philosophical differences over the role of government. I don't believe the private enterprise is necessary the best.That's certainly a possiblity; we may be seeing this from two different political ideologies. It just adds additional costs onto employers.I assume by 'it' you mean the status quo, so I'll respond to that: What are the additional costs you believe are incurred? At the moment, a company can choose to pay for accounting software, or use the free accounting software available (which means they have a choice of not paying at all, and therefore no cost). Under the scheme you propose, every company would be required to pay for an accounting package that they may not even use or want - and even if they did decide to use it, they would then face the additional costs of migrating their data to a new system. You are assuming that there will be an additional cost.Of course there will be an additional cost - who do you think is going to pay for the development and maintenance of your proposed accounting system? Lets take the case of a business employing one or two staff members, doing their returns manually and filling in the monthly paper return. Someone at the IRD has to process that return into a computer. Not to mention the costs of the forms, postage etc. I suspect the the savings made would more than offset the cost of maintaining a system. What you're not taking into account is that the IRD already offer online data entry, and paper forms can be largely processed by OCR systems. Even if manually entered (i.e. poor quality handwriting on a form), it takes a few minutes per form at most, and would likely be paid at or near the minimum wage - data entry doesn't require any notable skills. I believe that the IRD already offer a subsidy to tax agents of small business and there is at least one online firm that is using that subsidy to offer a free service to small business. Therefor if they can afford to do it using a subsidy that the government already provide then you are already paying for it. I assume you mean this (www.ird.govt.nz)? That's somewhat different from what you're proposing, and fulfils a different need (skilled accounting staff as opposed to accounting software). Before you say then why don't business use the free existing service. History shows us that private business don't always carry on the way they start off.I'm still going to say it - if a business doesn't like the paid offerings available, why don't they just use a free one? Note that several free packages are open-source, and are not developed by a specific corporate entity - as a result, there is no need to worry about "not carrying on the way they started off". I still don't understand why you think the IRD should spend taxpayer money on developing and maintaining yet another accounting package, which would provide no tangible benefit (if you can see a benefit to this then please by all means point it out, because I can't see one) when there are already many of them available - could you expand this point further?	Erayd (23)
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