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Thread ID: 120335	2011-09-04 14:00:00	7+ year old PC with old internal Modem: how can Ubuntu 11.04 get online with this PC?	Dragonov (16500)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1228668	2011-09-20 03:28:00	Howdy Agent_24: have staggered in here after a whole series of defeats with the Dial-Up configuration thing: yesterday, after seeing your latest Post, went for a big hunt in Ubuntu (which is a DVD installation) for the Utilities you mention, but cannot find even one of them; have spent hours looking for them, but nothing has surfaced. Ended up finding them on the Web and downloading them : it appears that all of them have to be installed in order to create a functioning "suite" (there are three: gnome-ppp, wvdial, and wvstreams. From what I can gather, gnome-ppp needs wvdial, and wvdial needs wvstreams) but the language used on these Geeky Websites is very difficult for a layman to try and make sense of, and can only blindly try and guess what they mean. Had grabbed one of those 8GB USB Drives from OfficeMax to use for Linux Ubuntu OS, so shoved the files into that, went into Ubuntu, and hunted around for a way to install them. Couldn't find a way to do it, - all there seems to be is a thing called the "Synaptic Package Manager" but how the hell do you use this thing? Went out back into Windows to trawl around the Web looking for a comprehensible "How-To" viz-a-viz Synaptic Package Manager, but every Website that had anything about it, was just so Geeky I couldn't understand what they were saying. Was up all night trying to find a way around this bloody annoying problem, but got nowhere. Cannot understand why they do this: Geeks are only a tiny minority of computer users, and most computer users just want to be able to use their computers, instead of everything being like a Phd Test in Nuclear Physics: am seeing first-hand, right now, - why Linux is still a minority OS, and it is gonna continue to remain a minority OS until the Open Source people start to realise that most people with computers are not programmers/Geeks/Technicians and are just ordinary slobs who wanna use their computers without having to get a nuclear physics degree to be able to do it. That tutorial thing (the excellently illustrated one showing how to set up a Dial-Up connection in Ubuntu) says it all, Agent_24: WHY did they remove that stuff from Ubuntu??? See what I mean how their minds are working? I would actually say that their minds are malfunctioning!!! The Firefox dudes are like that too - so far with practically every new version, they have omitted some of the best features from earlier versions, and a ghastly example of this strange thinking is in the "Add-On's" system in FF: in the "3" series (3.16, etc) they had a beautiful, easy to use, Add-On's/Plug-In's/Persona platform which was a delight to mess round with as it was so beautifully designed. But then along came the 4/5 Series where suddenly they got rid of the "3" Series Add-On's system and replaced it with a horrible, clunky, clumsy, awkward monstrosity that is a woeful pain in the Ass, and the question is, WHY??? They also ditched altogether the "Refresh" button, got rid of the "Stop" button, got rid of the "Padlock", and then got rid of the Loading-Bar/Status Bar!!! WHY???? They make all of these (except for the "Stop" button, or at least have never seen a "Stop" Add-On) available as Add-Ons but WHY didn't they just leave them inbuilt into Firefox??? Incidentally, that "Stop" button was one of the most useful features in Firefox's vast array of excellent features. Agent_24, I am not the only one who is bewildered by these strange behaviours of those Geeks, and who wants to know WHY they do these things? It is as if they deliberately try to make everything as arcanely incomprehensible and as difficult to do as possible.... and yet they keep saying they want more people to use Linux/Open Source!!! These Linux people need to get more exposure to the real world so that they can see that most people are NOT like them!!! So as said Agent_24 am pretty much marooned on a great big Linux sand-bar! But honestly Agent_24, I learnt how to use Windows on my own, doing my own research, and always found the information in the end to solve any problems that had arisen. Stuff like setting up a Dial-Up account and installing and uninstalling programmes was dead-easy from the outset, and a piece of cake to do. So again, Agent_24, WHY does Linux make such things so mind-bendingly difficult? They even admit that they do in Ubuntu 11.04 where in "Synaptic Package Manager" they talk about how hard to understand how to use Synaptic Package Manager actually is, and that most people won't be able to use it because of this fact. So why the HELL don't they do something about it??? WHY did they get rid of that system in that Tutorial I placed that Link to??? WHY do they do these things??? Agent_24, gonna go for a Web crawl to get away from Linux for a while, am excruciatingly frustrated (but nevertheless undaunted!) so gonna go browse some news sites until the temperature from the internal combustion begins to subside a bit!!!:dogeye:: Cheers Agent_24.	Dragonov (16500)
1228669	2011-09-20 03:45:00	Howdy Agent_24: have staggered in here after a whole series of defeats with the Dial-Up configuration thing: yesterday, after seeing your latest Post, went for a big hunt in Ubuntu (which is a DVD installation) for the Utilities you mention, but cannot find even one of them; have spent hours looking for them, but nothing has surfaced . Ended up finding them on the Web and downloading them : it appears that all of them have to be installed in order to create a functioning "suite" (there are three: gnome-ppp, wvdial, and wvstreams . From what I can gather, gnome-ppp needs wvdial, and wvdial needs wvstreams) but the language used on these Geeky Websites is very difficult for a layman to try and make sense of, and can only blindly try and guess what they mean . They can be easily installed from the 'Ubuntu Software Center' which is at the bottom of the standard "Applications" menu which is located on the top-left of the screen on the upper panel . Just open "Ubuntu Software Center" and search for gnome-ppp in the search box, then hit the install button . It should install gnome-ppp, and wvdial etc from the DVD . "Synaptic Package Manager" is what you could call a more advanced version of 'Ubuntu Software Center' (Although in actual fact the reverse is the case: Ubuntu Software Center is just a simplified interface for the other) - but all you should need to use at the moment is Ubuntu Software Center . Cannot understand why they do this: Geeks are only a tiny minority of computer users, and most computer users just want to be able to use their computers, instead of everything being like a Phd Test in Nuclear Physics: am seeing first-hand, right now, - why Linux is still a minority OS, and it is gonna continue to remain a minority OS until the Open Source people start to realise that most people with computers are not programmers/Geeks/Technicians and are just ordinary slobs who wanna use their computers without having to get a nuclear physics degree to be able to do it . I know, but they aren't making money from it, so I think they just make the thing the way they like it and have no real incentive to get anyone else to use it . You pretty much use it at your own choice\risk, in my opinion . I'm not exactly a Linux expert either! :rolleyes: That tutorial thing (the excellently illustrated one showing how to set up a Dial-Up connection in Ubuntu) says it all, Agent_24: WHY did they remove that stuff from Ubuntu??? See what I mean how their minds are working? I would actually say that their minds are malfunctioning!!! Yes, it is quite silly . I think they assume nobody uses dialup anymore (which is simply not true!) - but of course they still supply gnome-ppp etc to get around that problem, so it's not all bad . The Firefox dudes are like that too - so far with practically every new version, they have omitted some of the best features from earlier versions, and a ghastly example of this strange thinking is in the "Add-On's" system in FF: in the "3" series (3 . 16, etc) they had a beautiful, easy to use, Add-On's/Plug-In's/Persona platform which was a delight to mess round with as it was so beautifully designed . But then along came the 4/5 Series where suddenly they got rid of the "3" Series Add-On's system and replaced it with a horrible, clunky, clumsy, awkward monstrosity that is a woeful pain in the Ass, and the question is, WHY??? They also ditched altogether the "Refresh" button, got rid of the "Stop" button, got rid of the "Padlock", and then got rid of the Loading-Bar/Status Bar!!! WHY???? They make all of these (except for the "Stop" button, or at least have never seen a "Stop" Add-On) available as Add-Ons but WHY didn't they just leave them inbuilt into Firefox??? Incidentally, that "Stop" button was one of the most useful features in Firefox's vast array of excellent features . I agree with that too . Firefox is becoming more annoying . I can't say I like the new layout, but I fix it with some add-ons . Main one I use is "Status-4-Evar" which gives you a normal status bar back :) There's also another one called "Active Stop Button" which will let you have the normal stop\reload buttons back too . So again, Agent_24, WHY does Linux make such things so mind-bendingly difficult? They even admit that they do in Ubuntu 11 . 04 where in "Synaptic Package Manager" they talk about how hard to understand how to use Synaptic Package Manager actually is, and that most people won't be able to use it because of this fact . So why the HELL don't they do something about it??? WHY did they get rid of that system in that Tutorial I placed that Link to??? WHY do they do these things??? . Actually I think most Distros are pretty sensible . The problem is the Ubuntu team like to change things and add new features every 5 minutes which means things don't often stay the same from one year to the next . Other ones like Debian (what Ubuntu is based on) are more sensible and do not change so quickly . Once you get the hang of installing programs in Linux and understand more of how it works, you would probably find the Synaptic Package Manager is actually not that difficult to use . I like it quite a lot .	Agent_24 (57)
1228670	2011-09-20 09:37:00	Hullo Agent_24, very good to read your reply, and thank you for writing it. After this, will get the Ubuntu DVD into the DVD Drive and then go into Ubuntu and see if Ubuntu Software Center can find and drag any of those Utilities off the DVD: interesting that Ubuntu Software Center is a GUI for the infernal Synaptic Package Manager!!! (SPM: Satanic Purgatorial Monstrosity!) so am impatient to give it a go. Yeah what you say is fair enough viz Linux being free so the Linux dudes should be allowed to do the stuff they like and have everything the way they want it, but having said that, the Linux Phenomenon was originally a radical "Crusade" to undermine the greedy capitalistic Microsoft, and provide the world with a free alternative OS to Microsoft, and of course this means Linux has gotta "convert" people to Linux, and the way to do that is to make it have, by means of interfaces, as User-Friendly a disposition as possible in order to make it easily accessible to the "broad masses" of the populace, and who are overwhelmingly non-Geeky. How many people would be driving cars if you had to be a qualified mechanic in order to be able to start them up and drive them? But because cars are so "User-Friendly" a lot of people drive them who know nothing about cars at all and who could not even change a wheel if a tyre went flat! Cars have got a User-Friendly GUI!!! Gotta have my daily whinge Agent_24! Hey thanks for pointing to that Add-On: "Active Stop Button" - am gonna look for that and shove some copies in the USB Drive; have been "driving" around in Firefox 3.17 (there is a Website called "OldApps" where you can can get vast amounts of old applications, including multiple "evolutionary versions" of for example Firefox: www.oldapps.com If you scroll down the page a bit you will see a heck of a lot of Firefoxes you can download!!!) but Mozilla's Server nags at you to update your "old" Firefox; this is ok because the updated "old" Firefoxes" are different to their "pure" equivalents. In other words, if you let Mozilla update your "3" Series FF eventually to "4" and then "5", your "4" and "5" will not be the same as a "4" or "5" downloaded individually from a website. The updated "old" ones are much better and retainmore of their original good stuff, and anything that is lost can usually be reinstalled with an Add-On anyway. But the trick is to not let yourself get nagged into updating "5" to the dreaded "6". The "6" Series - which have just gotten rolling - are Uber Bad News Bears: have just had to wrench out a disastrous "6" update and start again with a Firefox 3.17 from outta the USB Drive!!! (and in no time was getting bombarded with Mozilla update Nag Panels!!!). Hey Agent_24, do you use NoScript? That NoScript is a humungously powerful protective App and everyone with Firefox should have it, according to the pundits in the Mozilla "review" forums. There is another one that is highly recommended by Mozilla afficionado's to be used in conjunction with NoScript by people who have got Broadband, and this Add-On is "Better Privacy" (it "kills" a new, sinister type of "flash" cookie). Check out, Agent_24 this pretty cool Anti-Keylogger/typographical keyscrambler for Firefox: thepcsecurity.com (If you install the Anti-keylogger/typographical keyscrambler, you have to reboot your computer to "set" the programme: if the icon near your clock in Windows is red then you should reboot, you only gotta do it once, straight after installing it in Firefox). Yes, that Status 4 Evar is a great app, cannot stand being without it (you can get the "Padlock"too as an Add-On): addons.mozilla.org This next one "MozBackup", has been found to be indispensable: it is a fantastic Utility that comprehensively, all at once, will back-up your entire Firefox (including all settings, bookmarks, etc, although you get to choose exactly what it will back-up each time, and also when you install a backup) and Thunderbird, as well as other Open-Source programmes as well: download.cnet.com There sure is a lot of great Open-Source stuff around, and it is a real privilege to be able to see it and use it: incidentally Agent_24, while messing around in Ubuntu 11.04 was astounded to see that you can get Comodo Firewall into Ubuntu! If this is true, then am gonna be very happy as am a pretty fanatical "disciple" of the Comodo Firewall for XP3 and always felt a bit apprehensive about the "Invisible Ubuntu Firewall" that a non-Geek cannot see, cannot tune, and has to simply swallow on faith that the "Invisible Firewall" is safe to go on the Web with. An invisible Guard Dog that cannot be seen, cannot be instructed, cannot even be found anywhere!!! What a huge confidence booster!!! But if Comodo can be installed in Ubuntu then we are talking about a REAL Firewall! Finally Agent_24, the attitude to Dial-Up is pretty peculiar because, for a start, as the "developed world" gets poorer, more and more people will end up on Dial-Up (there are huge numbers already on it, and not least in the USA: in the USA there are vast areas where through-the-wire Broadband is unobtainable, and their copper network is shot to hell anyway, it is ancient and literally rotting to bits. It also, where through-the-wire Broadband is available, is hideously slow, and horribly expensive: do not be deceived by claptrap Hollyweird where Americans live in vast mansion-like houses with super high-speed broadband and massive flat-screen monitors in every room!!!) and then there are places like India where one would assume Dial-Up would be what most people who get access to the Web there would be using. Logic would suggest that it is overwhelmingly a Dial-Up Internet world! Well Agent_24 gonna now head off on the Web to get that Add-On and then Ubuntu! Thanks again Agent_24, will be back for a bleat if something goes wrong, but hopefully the DVD has got those Utilities on it. Cheerio Agent_24.	Dragonov (16500)
1228671	2011-09-20 12:45:00	I wouldn't get my hopes up about Comodo running in Linux - it might be possible to run it in WINE, but due to the completely different system, I doubt the firewall would actually have access to the Linux network stack. Using the AV part might be possible, but not really necessary. If you did want an AV I would suggest ClamAV instead. You can already get a firewall in Ubuntu anyway, search in the software centre for 'firewall'	Agent_24 (57)
1228672	2011-09-20 22:15:00	How goes it Agent_24, thanks for your Post: Agent_24, first will report about the "gnome adventures" . . . and where (after grabbing a copy of that Stop/Reload App you described: looks very good; do not need it exactly now as have just today been updated to 3 . 6 . 22, and the layout is still "3 Series" - but that will soon change when "4" and "5" are reached and where that Add-On is gonna be needed; have got it deactivated in the Browser in readiness: am gonna let the updates continue until "5" is reached, and don't want to go any higher than that) Ubuntu was gone into and the Ubuntu Installation DVD was shoved in the Drive . The sequence then was: Applications > Ubuntu Software Center > then typed into the Search Panel: gnome-ppp > Get Software (button) The result was a Telephone Icon with GNOME PPP beside it, and written underneath those words was: GNOME Dialup Tool Tried wvdial and wvstream but the Search could not locate these files . So Agent_24, would that Gnome Icon/file have been grabbed from the DVD? Also, if so, and assuming that this actually is the Dial-Up Utility that is needed, will this on it's own be enough? What actually is likely to happen visually when that Modem is plugged in? Will a Dial-Up configuration panel pop up (to put details such as ISP phone number, Username, and Password into)? Hope that Modem gets here this week! Agent_24, pity about Comodo as am very fond of it! Have got a "thing" about Firewalls, so will go look in the Software Center for one (a GUI for the inbuilt "invisible" one?) as you advise . Will also look for that "Clam AV" as have got a "thing" about Antivirus/Anti-Malware applications too (well, am by nature Paranoid!!!) . Do you use such an AV in Ubuntu Agent_24, and, if so does it ever find anything? There are people who reckon that Linux is "impervious" to "bugs", but others say that Linux OS's are getting attacked a lot more than they used to, and on one website there is a lot of talk (it is an I . T . "chat" site) about Linux Servers having been temporarily knocked out in a DOS attack or something . It led to one of the correspondents getting angry and saying that Servers are "different" to OS's, and by this he was no doubt meaning that a dude with a Linux PC at home is very unlikely to get walloped with a DOS onslaught, and that DOS is not the same as an OS getting infiltrated with "bugs" . But still, there are those who say that Linux CAN get "bugs" nowadays, and the fact that there are AV's for them would imply that there is some truth to this . Another thing Agent_24 while I remember: when installing Ubuntu, did not do the "Updates", and with this in mind, does Ubuntu automatically update when it gets hooked up to the Web after it has been installed? Am asking this as am pretty fanatical about updating stuff and want to make sure, as soon as that External Modem is plugged in, that if Ubuntu needs updating then it is gonna happen as fast as possible (5kbps max!!!) . Well, that is the "saga" so far Agent_24, so better pretty soon go back into Ubuntu to do some more investigation/orientation: been messing around with files and folders - it's a lot different to Windows XP but is exceedingly fascinating! It's as you said quite a long time ago about Ubuntu 11 . 04: Natty Narwhal - it IS a big OS with a heck of a lot of stuff in it!!! Cheers Agent_24, your help is very highly appreciated .	Dragonov (16500)
1228673	2011-09-21 00:32:00	The sequence then was: Applications > Ubuntu Software Center > then typed into the Search Panel: gnome-ppp > Get Software (button) The result was a Telephone Icon with GNOME PPP beside it, and written underneath those words was: GNOME Dialup Tool Tried wvdial and wvstream but the Search could not locate these files. The "Get Software" button just takes you back to the main-menu of Ubuntu Software Center. When you searched for gnome-ppp it should have come up in the search results, then you should click on it and choose "install". Here's a screenshot of mine (my button says remove, as the program is already installed, but it's the same location) 3174 It should automatically install wvdial\wvstream etc along with it - but probably won't tell you that it's done so. Once installed you can find it under "Applications -> Internet -> Gnome PPP" - so check there to make sure it's installed. So Agent_24, would that Gnome Icon/file have been grabbed from the DVD? Also, if so, and assuming that this actually is the Dial-Up Utility that is needed, will this on it's own be enough? What actually is likely to happen visually when that Modem is plugged in? Will a Dial-Up configuration panel pop up (to put details such as ISP phone number, Username, and Password into)? Hope that Modem gets here this week! When you plug it in, nothing will happen, as serial does not auto-detect. In Gnome-ppp there is a button to scan and detect the modem, which you will have to do (make sure it's plugged in and turned on!) You also enter your account name\password and ISP phone number of course. If you get the same problem I did (disconnection) after you configure it, you may need to enable "Stupid Mode" as I did Agent_24, pity about Comodo as am very fond of it! Have got a "thing" about Firewalls, so will go look in the Software Center for one (a GUI for the inbuilt "invisible" one?) as you advise. Will also look for that "Clam AV" as have got a "thing" about Antivirus/Anti-Malware applications too (well, am by nature Paranoid!!!). Do you use such an AV in Ubuntu Agent_24, and, if so does it ever find anything? There are people who reckon that Linux is "impervious" to "bugs", but others say that Linux OS's are getting attacked a lot more than they used to, and on one website there is a lot of talk (it is an I.T. "chat" site) about Linux Servers having been temporarily knocked out in a DOS attack or something. It led to one of the correspondents getting angry and saying that Servers are "different" to OS's, and by this he was no doubt meaning that a dude with a Linux PC at home is very unlikely to get walloped with a DOS onslaught, and that DOS is not the same as an OS getting infiltrated with "bugs". But still, there are those who say that Linux CAN get "bugs" nowadays, and the fact that there are AV's for them would imply that there is some truth to this. Information about about viruses in Linux here: en.wikipedia.org I use ClamAV mainly for scanning USB drives, or hard drives (or my own Windows drives) if I suspect something nasty going on. It isn't really designed to protect your computer (Not realtime AV, only on-demand scanner) Another thing Agent_24 while I remember: when installing Ubuntu, did not do the "Updates", and with this in mind, does Ubuntu automatically update when it gets hooked up to the Web after it has been installed? Am asking this as am pretty fanatical about updating stuff and want to make sure, as soon as that External Modem is plugged in, that if Ubuntu needs updating then it is gonna happen as fast as possible (5kbps max!!!). When online, it does search for updates but will not install them until you let it. I think you can also disable the automatic checking of updates if you wish. Of course updating is a good idea (in the interests of security) but on dialup it will be slow, of course :( Up to you, really.	Agent_24 (57)
1228674	2011-09-21 10:29:00	Hi Agent_24: came here hours ago and saw your latest Post (thanks Agent_24) and after scrutinizing what you said, went and had an extremely protracted stint of head-banging in Ubuntu trying to find a way to make it do what your description says it should do.... but it won't!!! Keep getting things happening that are not in any way like your description. Am gonna here recap in careful detail exactly what happens: After the DVD is put in the Drive, I go: Applications > Ubuntu Software Center > Get Software. The Get Software Main Panel has got, at top-left back/forewards buttons, a "get software" button, and a "search results" button. On the right-hand side of the Panel is the Search Box, which has a little magnifying-glass icon at it's left end, and a "hearth-brush" icon at it's right end. When "gnome-ppp" is typed into the Search Box a little red "telephone" icon immediately appears on the left-hand side of the Panel just underneath the row of buttons at top-left of the Panel. This telephone icon has written next to it: "GNOME PPP" and "GNOME Dialup Tool". Underneath this is a button with "More Info" written on it. Pushing the "More Info" button (or else left-double-clicking the red telephone) sends you to a blue Panel with a big red telephone icon, and a long yellow strip underneath it and upon which is written: "Available from the universal source". At the right-hand end of the yellow strip is a gray button with "use this source" written on it. Pressing this gray button makes a "Security Pop-Up" materialise where you have to enter your Password, and press a button that says "Authenticate". Pressing "Authenticate" then makes the blue panel with the big red telephone and yellow strip reappear again, but this time the gray "use this source" button is faded and inactive. And that is "it"! A dead-end! There is no gnome-ppp in Applications > Internet: nothing "gnome" in the list at all. However, in Applications > Ubuntu Software Center > Internet > All 276 (where a scroll-list of programmes materialise) there is down in that list the red GNOME PPP telephone icon, and directly under that is an icon of a box with things in it, and beside it these words: "GNOME PPPon Start a PPP connection". Clicking on either icon makes a "More Info" button appear, and clicking on them sends you to the blue Panel with the big red telephone and yellow strip!!! HEEELLLLLLPPPP!!!!!	Dragonov (16500)
1228675	2011-09-21 10:51:00	I am not 100% sure but what you're describing gives me the impression that the gnome-ppp program is not actually on the Ubuntu disc you've got . I think the simplest way to fix this will be to download the gnome-ppp and wvdial packages separately in Windows first, then copy them to your Ubuntu installation and install them in there . Download both of these: . ihug . co . nz/ubuntu//pool/main/w/wvdial/wvdial_1 . 61-2_i386 . deb" target="_blank">mirror . ihug . co . nz . ihug . co . nz/ubuntu//pool/universe/g/gnome-ppp/gnome-ppp_0 . 3 . 23-1ubuntu3_i386 . deb" target="_blank">mirror . ihug . co . nz Don't try to open or run them in Windows, just save them to your USB drive or other media that will be accessible in your Ubuntu . Then, boot up Ubuntu, and locate the files you downloaded . Double-click on the wvdial one first, and it should open in Ubuntu Software Center automatically, which will ask if you wish to install it . If it complains the source is untrusted, just tell it proceed . Do the same for the gnome-ppp package . You should then have the programs installed .	Agent_24 (57)
1228676	2011-09-21 11:13:00	Edit: Sorry, missed a couple of things, and can't edit the original reply now . You'll also need to download and install these three packages: . ihug . co . nz/ubuntu//pool/main/w/wvstreams/libuniconf4 . 6_4 . 6 . 1-1ubuntu1_i386 . deb" target="_blank">mirror . ihug . co . nz . ihug . co . nz/ubuntu//pool/main/w/wvstreams/libwvstreams4 . 6-base_4 . 6 . 1-1ubuntu1_i386 . deb" target="_blank">mirror . ihug . co . nz . ihug . co . nz/ubuntu//pool/main/w/wvstreams/libwvstreams4 . 6-extras_4 . 6 . 1-1ubuntu1_i386 . deb" target="_blank">mirror . ihug . co . nz Before you install wvdial and gnome-ppp .	Agent_24 (57)
1228677	2011-09-21 13:41:00	Thanks a lot Agent_24, have just come here to see if you have replied to the earlier Bleat, and it is very good to see your Post: am gonna download and shove all those files in the USB Drive right now, and try and install them. Cheers Agent_24.	Dragonov (16500)
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