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Thread ID: 119213	2011-07-11 04:50:00	Police investigate TVNZ looter story	Trev (427)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1216040	2011-07-12 01:51:00	[QUOTE=}To go into someones property to steal.... depending on what it is, is ok? I think not. What if you were in your shop, abandoned or not and saw someone break in. People act differently but he might have got more than a black eye.[/QUOTE] What is wrong with you people. No compassion AT ALL Right up there with the attitude in Nazi germany in the 30's, they managed to make all issues with the mentally ill go away as well. You CANNOT compare the actions of this guy to that of the general public - the owners admitted the place was going to be demolished, before the quakes, nothing of any value to them in there - complusion to stealing light fitting: that would make it obvious the guy isnt 100% in the head - just seeing the guy on TV, it was blatantly obvious he wasnt 100% - cops beat him up_ they dont want to be seen as backing down or admiiting they were wrong. perhaps we should throw all mentally ill people in jail then if they break any laws.	1101 (13337)
1216041	2011-07-12 02:03:00	The cops have got it right, arrest all thieves and send them before a court, the court can then decide what happens next. Really, we both know thats NOT what the cops usually do. This would be one of the few times it would be better for all to just drop the case. they give many people diversion for much more serious crimes try getting the cops interested when you car is stolen, or house burgled(& not just $10 of goods taken). Then they just cant be bothered, even when you give them the address where to find the crim- as has happened many many times. Go to the cops & say you had $10 stolen, see what happens. They just dont want to be seen as backing down, how will they explain/justify the beating they gave this guy otherwise.	1101 (13337)
1216042	2011-07-12 02:56:00	Really, we both know thats NOT what the cops usually do. This would be one of the few times it would be better for all to just drop the case. they give many people diversion for much more serious crimes Well no, The courts give diversion, and if that is the outcome in this case then so be it. Having spent a fair amount of time with aspergers and autistic people I'd say the cops are in no position to make a judgment on that level. Nor would I guess are any of our pressf1 experts. A hard line on thieves is an excellent idea, round em up, send em to court. More of that please.	Metla (12)
1216043	2011-07-12 02:56:00	What is wrong with you people. No compassion AT ALL Right up there with the attitude in Nazi germany in the 30's, they managed to make all issues with the mentally ill go away as well. You CANNOT compare the actions of this guy to that of the general public . Mentally ill my arse. Even if you believe Aspergers is some kind of behaviour problem it's still not a mental illness. And it's still an excuse for a theft he admitted. makes no difference if the owners didn't care. And mentally ill, I have a relative via inlaws who really is mentally ill. Rampages through the streets naked, stabs people, does completely psycho things, goes crazy and attacks people. Even his father has had enough and can't wait until his sentencing, he's on bail so back to jail. He won't take his medication, so bugger him.	pctek (84)
1216044	2011-07-12 03:15:00	A hard line on thieves is an excellent idea, round em up, send em to court. More of that please. More would be a good idea. The Police haven't had much success in Chch given the amount of theft that hasn't been solved. All this noise about light fittings, what about the jewellery stores and hotels done over?	PaulD (232)
1216045	2011-07-12 14:49:00	What is wrong with you people. No compassion AT ALL Right up there with the attitude in Nazi germany in the 30's, they managed to make all issues with the mentally ill go away as well. You CANNOT compare the actions of this guy to that of the general public - the owners admitted the place was going to be demolished, before the quakes, nothing of any value to them in there - complusion to stealing light fitting: that would make it obvious the guy isnt 100% in the head - just seeing the guy on TV, it was blatantly obvious he wasnt 100% - cops beat him up_ they dont want to be seen as backing down or admiiting they were wrong. perhaps we should throw all mentally ill people in jail then if they break any laws. Your compassion is commendable and on a certain level most would agree with you. However lets be dispassionate for a moment and look at the scene: Fact 1 - there was an earthquake which killed 158 people Fact 2 - an state of civil emergency was in place Fact 3 - the defendant was found by the police to be unlawfully in a building without colour of right Fact 4 - the defendant was attempting to remove property for which he had no right or title Fact 5 - the police are entitled to charge an offender whether the victim wants that or not. That's essential: eg. in domestic disputes where the wife often forgives her abusive husband next day. Prima Facie - the defendant was looting a building during a civil emergency. He is entitled to a trial and might get lucky but the police have done exactly what you and I expect of them. Imagine the outcry if they'd given him a pat on the head and let him go. Can you imagine the headlines, picture Mark Sainsbury's apoplectic face as he grilled the Minister, the Commissioner etc, it would have gone on for days... Its common enough in other countries for looters to be shot. Its a nasty crime beyond simple burglary or theft.	Winston001 (3612)
1216046	2011-07-12 14:51:00	Just a quick elaboration on our criminal justice system. There are four levels: 1. An offence is committed but the Police/MAF/Customs etc decide it is low level and just give a warning. 2. Its a first offence, not serious, and the police offer Diversion. The offender is charged but so long as they recognise they are guilty, apologise to any victims, do some community-type work and/or make a donation to charity, the charge is withdrawn after 3 months. 3. The offender is charged and either pleads gulity or defends the charge. Mostly there is no jury trial but more serious charges have that option. 4. The offender is found guilty. The Judge has then to decide on sentence: impose a fine/community work/probation/prison. Or...discharge without conviction = no record, or convict and discharge without further penalty. Much compassion has been expressed for the unfortunate young man in this case. However his intellectual limitations are best assessed at trial, or at sentencing. That is when compassion can be shown and often is in the justice system. Which reminds me, many of the people who appear in District Courts have mental health problems. We hear public outrage on talkback about criminals and weak judges but few citizens have ever spent hours watching the sad parade of humanity our courts see every day.	Winston001 (3612)
1216047	2011-07-12 19:31:00	Much compassion has been expressed for the unfortunate young man in this case. However his intellectual limitations are best assessed at trial, or at sentencing. That is when compassion can be shown and often is in the justice system. Please, explain to me how Asperger Syndrome is an intellectual limitation? As I have posted several links on the first page of people who aren't all that "intellectually limited" yet have the syndrome. Which reminds me, many of the people who appear in District Courts have mental health problems. We hear public outrage on talkback about criminals and weak judges but few citizens have ever spent hours watching the sad parade of humanity our courts see every day. Then why isn't proper care provided for them? Why aren't they institutionalised if they are a danger to themselves and society? So it is OK to have ticking time-bombs with "mental health problems" walking around after the fact? Until they do something as horrendous like Clayton Weatherston? I bet he had a bunch of mental disorders, too...	Cato (6936)
1216048	2011-07-12 20:00:00	This thread is a good illustration of the dearth of common sense in New Zealand at large.	zqwerty (97)
1216049	2011-07-12 20:31:00	Master Criminal - I think not. Evil Incarnate - Doubtful. Sad little weirdo - Probably. At large due to changes in the mental health system brought on by accursed right wingers tinkering with established systems due to their limited insight. Full weight of the justice system brought to bear on this unfortunate individual - GROSS INJUSTICE. SHAME on anyone calling for prosecution after seeing the TV program. If the police need to set an example this is the wrong individual to choose as it is already bringing letters of complaint to the Justice Minister and merely brings the police into disrepute, another example of bad-management due to slavish adherence to draconian rules: ie lack of common sense.	zqwerty (97)
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