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Thread ID: 119824	2011-08-11 21:10:00	London Riots	Bobh (5192)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1222643	2011-08-14 23:42:00	I would just like to apologize for my comment earlier in the thread regarding Maori - It was a lot more insensitive than I intended, and it was also partially just stirring, obviously the topic is a bit hot considering the recent happenings here on the forum. It's not that I don't think the same thing has the potential to happen in NZ - it could, but I should not have singled out Maori - any group or ethnicity, kiwi or otherwise would appear to be capable of it given the right (or wrong as the case my be) circumstances. I'm sorry for any offense the comment caused. :) This is proving to be a very interesting thread. Apologies accepted.:thumbs::thumbs: Now all we need is 12v to be man enough to apologies for his comment in reply to Terry.	mikebartnz (21)
1222644	2011-08-15 00:00:00	To be insulted by 12v is possibly the most fulsome compliment this forum has yet generated. A same-source compliment would naturally be the complement.	R2x1 (4628)
1222645	2011-08-15 00:38:00	I would just like to apologize for my comment earlier in the thread regarding Maori - It was a lot more insensitive than I intended, and it was also partially just stirring, obviously the topic is a bit hot considering the recent happenings here on the forum. It's not that I don't think the same thing has the potential to happen in NZ - it could, but I should not have singled out Maori - any group or ethnicity, kiwi or otherwise would appear to be capable of it given the right (or wrong as the case my be) circumstances. I'm sorry for any offense the comment caused. :) This is proving to be a very interesting thread. Pretty decent of you, but I dont think your comments were intended so bad, just stating what may well be true even if you were stiring a little. And maybe the first thoughts of many Aucklanders who have knowledge of South Auckland. I agree, this thread is bringing some interesting info to the floor.	Iantech (16386)
1222646	2011-08-15 02:50:00	Tolerance is a two way street, don't expect it is you are not prepared to give it. Political correctness has a lot to answer for - it has ensured that debate on all too many social issues have been driven underground, with arguments of Racism, or Elitism, or religious or other prejudices being heaped on anyone who dared to comment in a way not approved by the self appointed politically correct censors in our society. The politically correct all to frequently resort to demonizing the individual or group whose views disagree with there own view of the world, especially when the opposing view has a very strong argument. One merely has to look at the demonisation of anyone who has the temerity to challenge the unproven science of man made climate change as a prime example. Similarly question the wisdom of continuing mass immigration of social groups who will not integrate into the host population, and who pose a major concern for future social problems, are met with abuse and accusations of racism and intolerance. No problem has ever been solved by pretending that the problem does not exist, it merely ensures that it festers until there is a social eruption. We now have a society where everyone has rights, that certain groups will push to extremes. As a moderating view, we must recognise that with rights there also goes responsibilities, and for those who refuse to exercise responsibility for their behavior to the society they chose to live in, then perhaps they should forfeit some of the rights that they so readily claim. If a country continues to allow mass immigration from groups that don't wish to accept the norms and standards of the host society, let alone integrate with, then future social problems are guaranteed. To recognise the genuine concern on these problems is not racism, it is common sense, to ignore them is crass stupidity; and the consequence of this stupidity is the deep social problems as evidenced by the past fortnight's events in England.	KenESmith (6287)
1222647	2011-08-15 06:25:00	That is a hard act to follow, only 12v would be unable to recognise the profound wisdom in those erudite words of Ken's. England in the early 1950s was a country still war torn. The final remnants of wartime rationing did not end until 1953. It had been and was a time of austerity. Every major industrial city and those cities with strategic targets that otherwise were not industrial had been bombed, some to smithereens like London and Coventry, Plymouth. The bombs were not selective they fell everywhere and so large areas of housing were destroyed. In one way this was a blessing because large chunks of 1800s slum housing were also removed. These 'bomb sites' were still around in the early 50s, the rubble had been cleared away, but councils had not yet got around to their grand plans for rebuilding, so there was inhabitable housing interspersed with bomb sites. My direct experience in those years was in Birmingham and the Black Country, but I expect the same patterns were repeated in all the cities. The Brits had fought a war for 5 years to defeat Nazism, and then had another equally long period of austerity with chronic shortages of everyday goods, rationing of basics, power cuts and make do and mend Then suddenly out of the blue, literally without any warning began an invasion. This time by an alien race with ways alien to the British, and this at time when there was already a desperate shortage of housing due both to the bombing and to the burgeoning "Baby Boomers"..............and the government(s) just looked helplessy on. Nobody asked the war torn population whether they would accept this immigration, it was imposed upon us. It has been written for example, that because of racism, the West Indians were forced into sub-standard housing, and exploited by voracious landlords....sob..sob..how dreadful, though no doubt elements of truth in it. Well of course, this housing is just what the Brits had been living in up until the Jamaicans arrived, that substandard housing was not just standing empty waiting for the Jamaicans...the 'white flight' syndrome :) The substandard housing, most likely better than that in rural Jamaica, rapidly became even more substandard. In some areas like Smethwick in the Black Counrty ( where the vigilante groups were formed to escort women home as I previously mentioned, but maybe 1952 or 53 rather than 51), local councils re-homed some immigrants whose slum housing was now condemned, into better council housing ahead of the locals still living in their 1850s and who had been waiting since the 20s and 30s. This was one topic of heated letters in the local Oldbury Weekly News of the times about the problems being caused by the influx of immigrants. Other complaints were of the noisiness and rowdiness of the new arrivals, abusive behaviour including the accosting of women and the annoyance caused when they were rejected. 12v of course would say this is racist talk by a fan of the Fascist Oswald Mosley (interned during the war, whilst Enoch rose from private to Brigadier), but these things happened, and as happens as we see on this forum, the Jamaicans were then tended to be all tarred with the same brush. What is remarkable is not that there has been unrest and riots over the years but that on the whole apart from the skinhead and white power lot, the British people have passively accepted the mass immigation, but then they had no say at all.... The current riots, though race and black gang warfare are major factors, the general disaffection and unemployment of the youth of all races must be signifficant Just to annoy 12v even more :) let me finish by quoting Enoch again from his Birmingham speech..... "But while to the immigrant entry to this country was admission to privileges and opportunities eagerly sought, the impact upon the existing population was very different. For reasons which they could not comprehend, and in pursuance of a decision by default, on which they were never consulted, they found themselves made strangers in their own country. They found their wives unable to obtain hospital beds in childbirth, their children unable to obtain school places, their homes and neighbourhoods changed beyond recognition................." www.enochpowell.net	Terry Porritt (14)
1222648	2011-08-15 06:29:00	Anglophobes would say that the British deserved all that they got as a reward for their dreadful colonial exploitation of the natives...:) No doubt there is some truth in that too:banana	Terry Porritt (14)
1222649	2011-08-15 07:33:00	That is a hard act to follow, only 12v would be unable to recognise the profound wisdom in those erudite words of Ken's. England in the early 1950s was a country still war torn. The final remnants of wartime rationing did not end until 1953. It had been and was a time of austerity. Every major industrial city and those cities with strategic targets that otherwise were not industrial had been bombed, some to smithereens like London and Coventry, Plymouth. The bombs were not selective they fell everywhere and so large areas of housing were destroyed. In one way this was a blessing because large chunks of 1800s slum housing were also removed. These 'bomb sites' were still around in the early 50s, the rubble had been cleared away, but councils had not yet got around to their grand plans for rebuilding, so there was inhabitable housing interspersed with bomb sites. My direct experience in those years was in Birmingham and the Black Country, but I expect the same patterns were repeated in all the cities. The Brits had fought a war for 5 years to defeat Nazism, and then had another equally long period of austerity with chronic shortages of everyday goods, rationing of basics, power cuts and make do and mend Then suddenly out of the blue, literally without any warning began an invasion. This time by an alien race with ways alien to the British, and this at time when there was already a desperate shortage of housing due both to the bombing and to the burgeoning "Baby Boomers"..............and the government(s) just looked helplessy on. Nobody asked the war torn population whether they would accept this immigration, it was imposed upon us. It has been written for example, that because of racism, the West Indians were forced into sub-standard housing, and exploited by voracious landlords....sob..sob..how dreadful, though no doubt elements of truth in it. Well of course, this housing is just what the Brits had been living in up until the Jamaicans arrived, that substandard housing was not just standing empty waiting for the Jamaicans...the 'white flight' syndrome :) The substandard housing, most likely better than that in rural Jamaica, rapidly became even more substandard. In some areas like Smethwick in the Black Counrty ( where the vigilante groups were formed to escort women home as I previously mentioned, but maybe 1952 or 53 rather than 51), local councils re-homed some immigrants whose slum housing was now condemned, into better council housing ahead of the locals still living in their 1850s and who had been waiting since the 20s and 30s. This was one topic of heated letters in the local Oldbury Weekly News of the times about the problems being caused by the influx of immigrants. Other complaints were of the noisiness and rowdiness of the new arrivals, abusive behaviour including the accosting of women and the annoyance caused when they were rejected. 12v of course would say this is racist talk by a fan of the Fascist Oswald Mosley (interned during the war, whilst Enoch rose from private to Brigadier), but these things happened, and as happens as we see on this forum, the Jamaicans were then tended to be all tarred with the same brush. What is remarkable is not that there has been unrest and riots over the years but that on the whole apart from the skinhead and white power lot, the British people have passively accepted the mass immigation, but then they had no say at all.... The current riots, though race and black gang warfare are major factors, the general disaffection and unemployment of the youth of all races must be signifficant Just to annoy 12v even more :) let me finish by quoting Enoch again from his Birmingham speech..... "But while to the immigrant entry to this country was admission to privileges and opportunities eagerly sought, the impact upon the existing population was very different. For reasons which they could not comprehend, and in pursuance of a decision by default, on which they were never consulted, they found themselves made strangers in their own country. They found their wives unable to obtain hospital beds in childbirth, their children unable to obtain school places, their homes and neighbourhoods changed beyond recognition................." www.enochpowell.net Following your logic you shouldn't be in New Zealand - which after all was settled by Maori first. So what did you and KenE do to change your ways to adapt to the Maori culture, given that is essentially your position is about immigrants.	Twelvevolts (5457)
1222650	2011-08-15 07:44:00	No the Moriori came first then maoris then us. We signed a treaty giving us rights to stay here, treaty works both ways.	prefect (6291)
1222651	2011-08-15 08:17:00	Following your logic you shouldn't be in New Zealand - which after all was settled by Maori first. So what did you and KenE do to change your ways to adapt to the Maori culture, given that is essentially your position is about immigrants. Assuming you are not Maori you just proved again how your thinking is quite illogical. By your own twisted argument, it is you and your own forebears that should have adapted into a stone age way of life, long before I came, or else have gone back whence they/you came. :illogical	Terry Porritt (14)
1222652	2011-08-15 12:26:00	Assuming you are not Maori you just proved again how your thinking is quite illogical. By your own twisted argument, it is you and your own forebears that should have adapted into a stone age way of life, long before I came, or else have gone back whence they/you came. :illogical You are the one who is against immigration, except when it suits you. I fail to see where I said you should adopt any other culture, indeed it is you not me who cares about what culture people adopt. I say each to their own, I don't see why anyone should force anyone else to adopt any culture including the predominant culture. As I said previously, I'm in favour of immigration as it allows the free flow of capital and labour across borders and supports the free market.	Twelvevolts (5457)
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