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Thread ID: 119758	2011-08-08 09:34:00	How to Lose Great Contributors??	radium (8645)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1221779	2011-08-09 01:44:00	For Terry and Marty I take no responsibility for this post either expressed or implied. I don't know the origin so am unable to acknowledge the author. hey BM you have that in a template or just ctrl c ctrl v?? :lol:	Gobe1 (6290)
1221780	2011-08-09 02:28:00	hey BM you have that in a template or just ctrl c ctrl v?? :lol: :thumbs: Good Idea :lol:	B.M. (505)
1221781	2011-08-09 02:34:00	Good Idea X2	QW. (15883)
1221782	2011-08-09 03:41:00	Jen asked for constructive comments, and instead you opt to attack me? I'm big . I can take it . So let me set a few things straight: 1 . SurferJoe's comments were close to what I felt was unacceptable stereotyping . I said that . That's the only action I took . 2 . I was asked whether Irish jokes weren't also offensive, and was pointed to a representative thread . I said that no, I felt it was okay, but that if anyone was offended, I'd be happy to remove it . In other words, I was not just entirely reasonable, but far more restrained than Jen or ChillingSilence would normally be . 3 . I'm happy to leave the mods to do their thing . They can confirm that . 4 . The mods are unpaid, volunteer positions . I am incredibly grateful to Jen and ChillingSilence for their efforts to maintain our community in a pleasant and welcoming shape . 5 . I could quite cheerfully hand out about 10 infractions for this thread, but I'm going to leave it to Jen and ChillingSilence (Sorry, guys!) who are quite capable . 6 . If I ever infract you, I will also PM you to tell you why . If you don't have a PM from me, I haven't infracted you . I've never infracted SurferJoe . 7 . This thread is open to constructive criticism . I hope you'll consider adding some . Thanks .	Zara Baxter (16260)
1221783	2011-08-09 03:50:00	J7. This thread is open to constructive criticism. I hope you'll consider adding some. Thanks.I PMd you some constructive criticism earlier, and received a rather dismissive reply informing me that it wasn't even worth your time to respond. As it appears you are still seeking feedback, I shall post my PM to you again here - I do hope that this time, you take it onboard in the manner it was intended: Hi Zara, I'd like to express some concern about recent events and trends on the forum – please note that I'm not trying to attack or insult anyone, but I also don't intent to excessively euphemise what I'm saying here either. I've been a member of this forum for almost a decade. During this time the forum's certainly had its share of ups and downs, but by and large has done pretty well. Jen and Chill have, in my opinion, done an outstanding job of helping to make this forum what it is today – they've helped define where the lines are, and nudged things back on track when necessary. Bruce Buckman was also a key figure in this role. Like good parents, they've allowed us to test the boundaries a bit, but when things go too far they're there to step in. After Fairfax took over, PressF1 was more or less abandoned by 'the folks upstairs' – the community ticked along more or less as it was before, but there was no longer any engagement from anyone at PC World. Jan was a brief exception, but sadly he didn't last long, and moved to Norway after a few months. More recently, Fairfax has shown some signs of wanting to engage more with the forum – which is in my opinion a very good thing, it is after all their forum! Siobhan joined us, and while not a prolific poster, she has fitted in well, and generally seems to have grocked the way the PressF1 community works. Then you came along. Please note that I don't understand your intentions or how you think, and I'm not trying to insult you – I'm just trying to illustrate the persona I can see via the forum: You're a new member who nobody knows. You admin rights on the forum. Your bio says simply “I'm the Bad Cop”. Your fourth post, only two days after joining, ends with an “<evil cackle>” about not letting mod powers go to your head. Your next interaction on the forum was to disagree with pretty much every poster in a large thread about A/V software, challenge the validity of those posters' comments without doing any background research, and then once presented with evidence you just abandoned the thread. After jumping on one of our longtime members for using gender stereotypes (and yes, it was slightly sexist, but he obviously wasn't trying to insult anybody), you then vanished again for months. A few days ago, you returned with an announcement that you will be updating the forum rules, after which you proceeded to censor several posts containing demographic humour in quite a heavy-handed manner, despite that humour having been OK on the forum for many years in the past, and despite the opinion from many others in the threads that those instances were OK. The picture I've formed from what I've seen (which I will admit is brief, but first impressions are powerful) is that of someone who likes to be in control, enjoys using power when it isn't necessarily warranted, is somewhat trigger-happy, and appears to be on a one-woman crusade to reform the forum culture in a rather 1984-esque manner. PressF1 has never been much of a place for strict political correctness, and having an outsider come in and attempt to dictate it doesn't do you any favours. I don't understand what your motives are, and I say this with the utmost respect, but I have to admit it concerns me when someone who doesn't understand the history we have here comes in the way you have and wants to start changing things. It's ultimately Fairfax's forum, and as their agent here you can do what you like, but please understand that this does have consequences for our community, and I'd hate to see that damaged. Kind regards, Erayd	Erayd (23)
1221784	2011-08-09 04:37:00	I PMd you some constructive criticism earlier, and received a rather dismissive reply informing me that it wasn't even worth your time to respond . As it appears you are still seeking feedback, I shall post my PM to you again here - I do hope that this time, you take it onboard in the manner it was intended: I'm not sure which part of that was intended to be the constructive bit, quite honestly . Perhaps I should say again: I've no intention of changing things without feedback from the community . I asked for feedback, and some people have provided it . Thank you to those who have . You've formed your opinion of me, and it would take far longer to correct that opinion than would be worth my time . I don't mind that you think those things of me . If you think that I am unaware of the history, the value of the contributors, and the community here, you're mistaken . I hope that time will prove what a storm in a teacup this all is . That's all I can really say .	Zara Baxter (16260)
1221785	2011-08-09 04:45:00	Well, its enough for me, I am removing my help and presence from this forum. I want nothing to do with forum with a power crazy ***** at the helm!	SolMiester (139)
1221786	2011-08-09 04:50:00	And the sad thing that someone is failing to realize here, that the longer it takes to offer an apology, step aside and let it be gone, as opposed to fighting tooth and nail, the longer it is going to be before any form of respect is shown to that person from the rest of the community here. Each excuse is just digging that grave a sheit load deeper...	Bozo (8540)
1221787	2011-08-09 04:53:00	And the sad thing that someone is failing to realize here, that the longer it takes to offer an apology, step aside and let it be gone, as opposed to fighting tooth and nail, the longer it is going to be before any form of respect is shown to that person from the rest of the community here. Each excuse is just digging that grave a sheit load deeper... Imo, at this point, BOTH parties should be offering an apology to the other - not for the original actions, but for what's been said and done since!	inphinity (7274)
1221788	2011-08-09 04:57:00	I'm not sure which part of that was intended to be the constructive bit, quite honestly. Then I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough - I was doing my best to be blunt but objective, and I wasn't trying to piss you off, but I was trying to illustrate how much of the forum sees you, and given the available information I'm certainly far from the only one who has formed the opinions I have. We simply don't have anything to go on, the *only* Zara we know is the new user with thirty-something posts on the forum - it's hard to figure out who you are and what your intentions are from so little. Like I said - I genuinely don't understand what your motivations are here, but what got to me is your interfering in what would normally be quite acceptable threads, which generally self-govern reasonably well. The thread that got to me in particular was actually the Irish humour one, rather than today's stuff - today was just the bit that pushed me far enough to feel that it was worth saying something. Your responses today haven't helped much to change that impression. Perhaps I should say again: I've no intention of changing things without feedback from the community. I asked for feedback, and some people have provided it. Thank you to those who have.I know you've said this, but actions speak louder than words, and recently your actions are intervening to censor stuff that would normally be left alone. If you look at the history of the forum, and in how Jen & Chill usually manage things, you'll see that there's quite a bit of this kind of humour and generalising of stereotypes that goes on. Most of the time, nobody takes offense, and when somebody goes too far they get called on it, and it's all well and good. You've stated before that you like Monday Laughs, but if you followed the line you're taking to its logical conclusion every ML thread would be locked, and Billy would be banned. You might not be changing the letter of things, but you certainly have been changing the implementation. As a result, it's very hard to tell what crosses your line unless we stick to the most demure, euphamised expression of fact possible. You've formed your opinion of me, and it would take far longer to correct that opinion than would be worth my time. I don't mind that you think those things of me. That's not what annoyed me - what annoyed me was the general tone of your response to my PM. Possibly I misunderstood what you meant, but it basically felt like a brush-off, and that you weren't prepared to address the forum's current perception of you, and furthermore didn't care. From an admin, that feels like a big mistake - you might not consider it worth your time, but bear in mind that to do this job well, you need the support of the community you are moderating. For that, you need to win their trust. If you think that I am unaware of the history, the value of the contributors, and the community here, you're mistaken.I certainly hope so. Recent events would seem to indicate that you haven't spent a lot of time observing the forums, or looking through previous threads - had you done so, you would understand why your current approach is causing problems. I hope that time will prove what a storm in a teacup this all is. That's all I can really say.Indeed :thumbs:. I wish you the best of luck going forward.	Erayd (23)
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