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Thread ID: 119824	2011-08-11 21:10:00	London Riots	Bobh (5192)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1222673	2011-08-17 08:03:00	I think this will be the last post I'll make in this thread, and then I'll switch off 12v so I don't have the pleasure of reading his ridiculous postings and the quite illogical conclusions he draws from other's, such as; 1. Because I supported and admired Enoch Powell, therefore he concluded I was a fan of the facist leader Mosley, which in turn implied I was also a fascist. 2. Because I described the situation when mass immigration started in the UK in the 50s, firstly by West Indians, then Indians from the sub-continent, and how mass uncontrolled immigration caused problems setting the stage for later events.....therefore he says I am; a) opposed to immigration, b) profess or propose that races cannot live together, and hence I am an advocate of apartheid, and have a racist philosophy I will refrain from further comment, otherwise I will be breaking the house rules :banana Gee you sign out without actually stating what your position is. So you're a fan of Enoch Powell and think immigration in England caused problems. What was your point? Oh we'll never know.	Twelvevolts (5457)
1222674	2011-08-17 08:12:00	There is nothing intrinsically wrong with immigration, without immigration neither New Zealand nor Australia, let alone the United States would be the countries they are today, but it has to operate in a win win situation for both the immigrants and the host country. People chose to immigrate for personal or family benefit and advantage, which is perfectly natural, but there has to be an advantage for the host receiving nation, namely that the immigrant will bring needed skills, knowledge etc that are in short supply in the potential host nation, and will at the same time enrich the culture of the host nation, ie the immigrant must contribute something in return for residency. This argument therefore excludes potential immigrants who will not contribute to the host country, but to the contrary will be an ongoing liability and charge on social welfare medical services etc. Additionally if the flow of immigrants is too high, this can put a heavy strain on infra-structure, for example, requiring higher than affordable expenditure on health services, social welfare, schooling and housing, causing rationing or degradation of services and increased costs for the citizens of the host country for housing and also taxes and government charges - after all someone has to pay. One essential quality that immigrants must have is an ability and a desire to integrate with the society of the host country. if the social or religious structure of the potential host country is not to their liking, then they should not chose to move there, it is hardly reasonable for a new arrival to expect the host nation to cater for his dislike of the society he has chosen to join. Another simple rule is leave the baggage of the social, ethnic and religious tensions that existed in your country of birth behind you when you come. (For example - If you are a Serb and can't abide Croats and Bosnians then stay in Serbia, we don't wish to import your hatreds with you. If your religious beliefs prevent you from accepting the rights of people of a different belief to your own to practice their religion then we don't need you) New Zealand and Australia have immigration rules and criteria for potential immigrants for the purpose of exercising control on both the quality and numbers of people who may enter the country as immigrants. To those who have not lived in Britain or Europe, especially post EU, they would not have any idea what uncontrolled immigration of third world people to west European countries has done. Medical, social and educational infrastructure is stressed to breaking point, to the disadvantage of the residents of the host country, pressure on housing and its affordability is out of control, ghettos have formed in the older parts of cities, with associated problems of law and order, and to top it all off far too many of these new immigrants are not contributing one iota to the host society's economy, in fact they are a liability, drawing social welfare, housing allowances etc, that the taxpayers of the host country has no option but too pay ( EU rules). To summarize, a perfect recipe for social disorder, accompanied by a backlash from the citizens of the host country. This is what has come to a head with the recent riots in Britain. In the last 5 years of the Bliar & Brown Labour administrations a further 1.75 million 3rd world immigrants arrived in Britain. Additionally citizens of Eastern European countries have an automatic right of entry to Britain under EU rules and an entitlement to British social welfare. Are there jobs for them? - No- unemployment is a major problem in Britain? How do they contribute to the British nation? - they don't, most of them are on social welfare benefits. Do they wish to integrate and participate in British Society? - far too many don't, especially Muslims. What is the consequence of this uncontrolled immigration? - Read your newspaper, watch the TV news etc - social unrest and chaos. When people who have been no further abroad than Otahuhu, come across all high and mighty about this situation, and compare it to immigration to NZ or Australia, the answer is a simple, "get real, you have no bloody idea" - This problem has been 60-70 years in the making, and when Enoch Powell, an extremely able man, with wisdom and foresight, started speaking up about it over 45 years ago, and the future problems that it was creating for British society, he was decried as a racist etc etc. A problem that was sowed by previous government administrations, just by their inaction, is being reaped and will go on being reaped by the current generation of British people. It will not go away, and it will become increasingly difficult to sort out. Australia and New Zealand, be smart, learn by Britain's mistakes rather than copying their mistakes and reaping the same consequences. That is a well written and was a pleasure to read and you state your position very well and one can actually follow what your argument is.	Twelvevolts (5457)
1222675	2011-08-17 08:59:00	Yet again you prove that you can't argue your case and rely solely on personal attacks. I am very happy to admit I can't argue with you as it is impossible when your logic is so flawed. Accusing Terry of being a racist for what he said was just beyond the pale.	mikebartnz (21)
1222676	2011-08-17 09:05:00	Dealing with the Rioters and Looters is really very simple. ;) See HERE (dl-web.dropbox.com) Bet he didn't cause a problem for a while. :D	B.M. (505)
1222677	2011-08-17 09:10:00	I am very happy to admit I can't argue with you as it is impossible when your logic is so flawed. Accusing Terry of being a racist for what he said was just beyond the pale. Well his comments on Jamaicans I would have thought were hard to interpret in any other way. However you'd think he is capable of clarifying his argument without your help, but apparently not. If my logic is so flawed, how come you can never identify how and instead continually launch personal attacks. Happy to have the debate but it seems you never are.	Twelvevolts (5457)
1222678	2011-08-17 09:49:00	Well his comments on Jamaicans I would have thought were hard to interpret in any other way. However you'd think he is capable of clarifying his argument without your help, but apparently not. If my logic is so flawed, how come you can never identify how and instead continually launch personal attacks. Happy to have the debate but it seems you never are. You are still displaying that trait.	mikebartnz (21)
1222679	2011-08-17 12:11:00	You are still displaying that trait. You really can't help yourself - try posting something about the topic.	Twelvevolts (5457)
1222680	2011-08-23 05:41:00	Wow, THIS (dotsub.com) guy isn't afraid to tell it how it is. (or was) :thumbs:	B.M. (505)
1222681	2011-08-24 03:01:00	Got to give 12v some ups, although I dont agree, but he sticks to his guns. Anyway anyone see the latest mugging etc on YT? Man some insane stuff went on!	rob_on_guitar (4196)
1222682	2011-08-24 06:07:00	Wow, THIS (dotsub.com) guy isn't afraid to tell it how it is. (or was) :thumbs: ANd he says it so well :thumbs:	Iantech (16386)
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