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Thread ID: 121465	2011-10-26 20:27:00	Teachers have an easy life - yeah right!	Roscoe (6288)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1240170	2011-10-27 07:45:00	Yeah but change doesn't (in my opinion) need to be effected as the status quo is working just fine. The lack of educational achievement in this country is not the fault of the teaching establishment, there's a myriad of reasons for that - some of which I fear are irreversible barring a complete change in some societial attitudes. The changes being suggested are ideologically driven and aren't being suggested because they are a proven "game changing" solution to low educational achievement.	Chemical Ali (118)
1240171	2011-10-27 07:48:00	Perhaps you're right, I certainly do not have the answers. The overall problems are bigger than any of us.	DeSade (984)
1240172	2011-10-27 07:53:00	Agreed ...	Chemical Ali (118)
1240173	2011-10-27 07:56:00	Yeah but change doesn't need to be effected because the status quo works just fine. It's political ideology that is driving the sort of change that are in the wind not because what's being mooted represents a proven formula that is going to be a game changer which lifts educational achievement. I too say it works ok, and would go on to say that if left alone it would work correctly for a infinite time, but as the government like to play games with our futures and education, each time the government changes the goal posts move on where they want education to be or end up. So change may not always be better. So people get lost in the system easily. Where the ministry is up on centre / school evaluations, (ERO reports) often a weak link in the form of a teacher is not placed on the fix it form.	beetle (243)
1240174	2011-10-27 08:10:00	Sometimes the only way to effect change is to hit people in the pocket, most other industries have learnt this lesson. The @#!*%# government certainly has. They kept the change too.	R2x1 (4628)
1240175	2011-10-27 18:52:00	Performance pay is being strongly resisted by the teaching body because it's not equitable with the workplace environment. No teacher has exactly the same student group, socio-economic circumstances and teaching resources/support to work with so how can you fairly/equitably compare them? Teachers in well resourced, high decile schools with a high level of parental support are far more likely to show academic success/progress than those in other schools. With performance pay you're talking about messing with peoples' incomes/livelihoods and naturally that provokes fear/concern. I have no doubt that there are incompetent/inadequate teachers like there are incompetent/inadequate workers in any occupational group but in my experience the vast majority of teachers are professional, hard working and very dedicated despite the pressures and barriers to success that they encounter. New Zealand is really well served by it's teaching profession but possibly not as well served by the support apparatus, funding etc that surrounds it. This is the typical response from teachers. They say yes there are bad teachers I a good teacher All children are different so you can't have performance pay. Well everyone one else can deal with performance pay, and they all have different customers, areas, bosses etc. I agree that we need good teachers to inspire people. I just wish teachers would give up on their union And let the government set the curriculum and standards etc. We the people (via our government) should set what is taught and how. Not teachers - they are our employees. And if NZ has such good teachers why do so many children give up on school, and can't even read or write when they leave school.	Digby (677)
1240176	2011-10-27 20:39:00	And let the government set the curriculum Not sure that is a good idea at all. And if NZ has such good teachers why do so many children give up on school, and can't even read or write when they leave school. Bad parents.	mikebartnz (21)
1240177	2011-10-27 21:23:00	I consider national standards to be an excellent move, and those that tried to stop them were doing it because of their ego or to hide their incompetence.	Metla (12)
1240178	2011-10-27 21:29:00	A year or two ago a Labour spokesperson was having a go at National over education. They weren't very bright because the kids he was referring to had actually spent nine years education under Labour and only a couple under National.	mikebartnz (21)
1240179	2011-10-27 22:04:00	This is the typical response from teachers. They say yes there are bad teachers I a good teacher All children are different so you can't have performance pay. Well everyone one else can deal with performance pay, and they all have different customers, areas, bosses etc. I agree that we need good teachers to inspire people. I just wish teachers would give up on their union And let the government set the curriculum and standards etc. We the people (via our government) should set what is taught and how. Not teachers - they are our employees. And if NZ has such good teachers why do so many children give up on school, and can't even read or write when they leave school. This makes sense to me. The government of the day collectively represents all of us. They/we employ teachers to teach what we require our children to learn. Like any other occupation if an individual does not wish to do what the employer wants then they are free to resign and do something else for a living. If the majority of the population disagrees with the government we get to vote them out. I am sick of the teachers unions behaving as a political lobby group particularly when they are using time they are paid to teach to do so.	CliveM (6007)
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