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Thread ID: 121800	2011-11-14 06:12:00	Two Johns One Tape	Cato (6936)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1243483	2011-11-15 01:42:00	How was this manipulation? MMP is designed to force parties to collaborate; that's the whole point of it. All the meeting did was indicate a preference from two parties to be working together. Well firstly the arrangements under MMP should be done after the election and if agreement can’t be reached another election held. The way I understand it, this meeting was about National not standing a Candidate against Banks, with the sole purpose of trying to get him in by not splitting the vote. In Horse Racing terms this constitutes pulling a horse to fix a race and would get you disqualified for life. If this is considered all above board, imagine if Labour and the Maori Party started rigging their candidates to ensure Labour won certain seats and the Maori Party the others. The election results could almost be predetermined. :lol:	B.M. (505)
1243484	2011-11-15 02:45:00	Well firstly the arrangements under MMP should be done after the election and if agreement can’t be reached another election held. Says who????????????????????????	Zippity (58)
1243485	2011-11-15 03:19:00	Well firstly the arrangements under MMP should be done after the election and if agreement can’t be reached another election held.Nope - arrangements can be made beforehand, but the government can't be formally created until after the voting has taken place, because you need to know who got how much of the vote (and therefore how many MPs each party gets). The way I understand it, this meeting was about National not standing a Candidate against Banks, with the sole purpose of trying to get him in by not splitting the vote.You understand wrong then - National is standing a candidate in Epsom (and that candidate is currently polling reasonably well). The meeting was a media stunt, intended to send the message that voting for Act isn't a wasted vote, and prevent people ditching them across all electorates. It was also intended to send a "vote for Banks" message to Epsom, because Act can't get into parliament without winning this seat unless they get 5% of the party vote (unlikely). The outcome is to keep Act alive as a coalition option - they probably won't need them this time around, but will almost certainly need them in 2014, and if they don't get any MPs in this year then they're highly unlikely to be viable in 2014. In Horse Racing terms this constitutes pulling a horse to fix a race and would get you disqualified for life.Except National isn't pulling their canditate. If this is considered all above board, imagine if Labour and the Maori Party started rigging their candidates to ensure Labour won certain seats and the Maori Party the others. The election results could almost be predetermined. :lol:Have you actually thought this through? Your reasoning doesn't make sense; they only get MPs into parliament if people vote for them.	Erayd (23)
1243486	2011-11-15 04:20:00	One could see it was a jack-up, otherwise Key's might have been playing with a concealed "bomb". Where were his body guards, they should have cleared it away. FPP now definitely my choice. Lurking.	Lurking (218)
1243487	2011-11-15 04:56:00	There's a good explanation of the four alternative systems (plus the current MMP) here (www.elections.org.nz).	Erayd (23)
1243488	2011-11-15 05:19:00	And some more detail here (www.referendum.org.nz).	Erayd (23)
1243489	2011-11-15 05:20:00	What I find abhorrent about the whole matter is regardless of what exactly is on the Tape, the meeting itself was to organise the manipulation of our voting system. It was blatant and both should be forced to resign for their trouble. :mad: Well said. National has done it before and it is just one reason I won't be voting for them.	mikebartnz (21)
1243490	2011-11-15 05:49:00	Well said. National has done it before and it is just one reason I won't be voting for them.If you consider this a reason not to vote for them, will you be voting at all? There isn't a single party in parliament that I'm aware of who hasn't used the structure of MMP to their advantage. I assume you realise that this is actually the way MMP is supposed to work?	Erayd (23)
1243491	2011-11-15 05:54:00	Well said. National has done it before and it is just one reason I won't be voting for them. Doesn't Labor have the same cozy relationship with Anderton in Sydenham. Help him to get in so that they have one more on their side..	paulw (1826)
1243492	2011-11-15 05:57:00	How was this manipulation? MMP is designed to force parties to collaborate; that's the whole point of it. All the meeting did was indicate a preference from two parties to be working together. It can be seen as making a deal before the elections which to me means a bypassing of the voters wishes. If they want to they could amalgamate the two parties before the elections and then there would be no deception.	mikebartnz (21)
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