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Thread ID: 121905	2011-11-20 22:33:00	Maori Television	Ulsterman (12815)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1244552	2011-11-23 01:26:00	Yup that was the 5th in the series.. The rest of We shall remain (4 of them about 2 GB in size) are on their site. I downloaded them last week, then converted / burned them to DVD. I'll get last nights one next week	Speedy Gonzales (78)
1244553	2011-11-23 02:39:00	Thanks for that info. I will do the same :)	Zippity (58)
1244554	2011-11-23 05:46:00	And just to add, the Maori we hear being spoken today, is not even proper Maori, its not even some sort of Europeanised Maori and here is why. Sorry Iantech but you Just don't understand how linguistics works, neither do I really to be honest but I know enough to see some flaws in your argument. For a start let me say I agree that what is spoken today is probably not the same as the original Maori language, and that it makes no allowances for regional differences either. The Vowel sounds I was taught in school bear only a vague resemblance to what newsreaders seem to think is correct these days. Also it's almost as if I'm not allowed to get it right, as every time I think I do it is changed. Now, on to your Maori has no "F" theory...... When English Linguists undertook the task of creating a written language for Maori they did not simply write down Maori words in English, they attempted to analyse the sounds and assigned letters to them. The fact that they used the nearest equivalent english letters is no doubt the source of some confusion, but you can not pronounce the words as if they were written in English, they are not and if you think about it you already know that. The "Wh" sound is perhaps not truly an "F" and indeed is a longer softer sound, but it is the closest english sound and so is often used by native english speakers in place of the correct sound so in that sense it is in fact "europeanised". Spell some Maori words with a F and then look at them objectively, in many cases it will alter the way you say them so the sound you normally say is therefore not actually an F. It's not so straight forward though as english tends to assign many different but similar sounds to the same letter, you can say "F" many ways depending on the word sp sometimes it does seem like you could swap it. Myself I don't think they should have created the written language at all, rather just spelt the words phonetically and recorded correct usage and syntax. Maori could have created their own written language if they wanted one. Incidentally "wrote" should be "written" in all but one of the times you used it.	dugimodo (138)
1244555	2011-11-23 06:07:00	How very patient of you dugi. What I find annoying, is the insistance on the correct pronunciation of Maouri, yet everybody seems to be happy to murder the English language.	Cicero (40)
1244556	2011-11-23 10:55:00	dugi, thank you for your time and words of wisdom, good discussion :thumbs: Interesting to hear another point of view, thanks. I shall watch my wrotes and writtens in future, but it sounded fine to me at the time lol :D	Iantech (16386)
1244557	2011-11-23 18:13:00	Well I still believe that the old Linguists that translated the Maori language were a bunch of pedantic old chaps who would have written the word as closely as they could to how it was spoken. So if Whangarei was spoken Fongaray, it would have been spelt Fongaray. There is also a News Reader that thinks Te Kuiti is pronounced Quetee. I think she is of Maori extraction to boot. So clearly the language has been bastardised and is no longer relevant. :horrified	B.M. (505)
1244558	2011-11-23 20:23:00	How very patient of you dugi. What I find annoying, is the insistance on the correct pronunciation of Maouri, yet everybody seems to be happy to murder the English language. Spot on! But it is true that a living language, such as English, does change and these changes keep it alive, but so far as maori pronunciation is concerned, it seems that the powers that be want no change which, in most definitions, make it a dead language. B.M.: I do agree. Surely the people who wrote down the maori language wrote it as they heard it. If they had heard "Fongeray" they would have wriiten it that way - but they did not. So where do the newsreaders get their strange pronunciation from?:illogical They are certainly out of step with the majority of the country.	Roscoe (6288)
1244559	2011-11-23 23:43:00	They got it from some group of Maori academics in the 1980s who decided how it would be pronounce and the media being good PC junkies adopted it next day. I remember when i was in Telecom and went to look at what was Directory Assistance there were notices on the boards encouraging people to attend correct Maori pronunciation courses.	paulw (1826)
1244560	2011-11-24 00:20:00	Bewars any academic, when out of ivory tower.	Cicero (40)
1244561	2011-11-24 06:52:00	I think some of you missed what I was getting at. They assigned letters to sounds, the letters should be thought of as non english symbols. Because they are english letters you tend to think of them in terms of the english sound associated with them, but when the language is Maori the english sounds have no bearing on the word. They did not spell the words phonetically, which is when you spell a word how it sounds using english (in the case of english speakers) they attempted, however successfully, to create an alphabet and language using the nearest equivalent english letters.. Written Maori is a completely different language to written english that just happens to use the same characters to express it. I don't entirely get it myself but I'm not a linguist. It always puzzled me for example why the Maori "i" wasn't just called "e" as it seems to be the closest vowel sound. I'm finding it difficult to explain this so it makes sense, so I think maybe this is my last try :)	dugimodo (138)
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