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Thread ID: 122042	2011-11-27 05:26:00	The Holy Ghost.	mzee (3324)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1245840	2011-11-29 08:16:00	Funny enough much of the criticism of the book is that its poorly researched and written. www.lrb.co.uk Categorising Eagleton is tricky - does he go with loose nuts, crackers, or fruit cakes? Perhaps he could qualify to live in Epsom? :)	R2x1 (4628)
1245841	2011-11-29 09:46:00	Funny enough much of the criticism of the book is that its poorly researched and written. Not really surprising though Metla, if you make even the briefest of searches you will run into theology-driven critics: Eagleton’s touching foray into theology shows, if proof were needed, that he is no philosopher: God does not have to exist, he informs us, to be the ‘condition of possibility’ for anything else to exist. There follow several paragraphs in the same fanciful and increasingly emetic vein, which indirectly explain why he once thought Derrida should have been awarded an honorary degree at Cambridge. I have no mandate for Dawkins, though I have read several of his books and found them well researched and the premises cogently argued. The main issue here is that believers in the supernatural will always argue with agnostics and atheists, and creationists will argue with anybody. The key difference though, is that agnostics and atheists don't really care what anybody else thinks, they are comfortable with and within their own beliefs, but those who subscribe to belief in Gods (there are far too many to list here and believers in the christian god-figure are a tiny minority of the world population) are inclined to be very uncomfortable with anybody who does not subscribe to their "God" vision. Strangely enough, Islam shares many of the Christian beliefs and tenets yet they see christians as unbelievers. Personally I think Dawkins got it pretty well right within the context of the societal mores that he was researching, and the lack of any equivalent writings in other belief structures is probably attributable to their nasty habit of stoning people to death or exacting other equally painful means of retribution on anybody with the temerity to challenge the preaching of the annointed ones. If a 'religion' cannot withstand open analysis and criticism then it is not a religion at all, it is a thinly disguised mind-controlling cult. That is my personal view, but above all, I am grateful that secular debate can be freely entered into in this country without fear of retribution by fanatics, or attacks by the intolerant or ignorant. I also admire that most apt and concise expression 'fanciful and increasingly emetic vein' in the quote above in relation to Eagleton. What a way with words! He should have been a preacher. Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
1245842	2011-11-29 17:40:00	Strangely enough, Islam shares many of the Christian beliefs and tenets yet they see christians as unbelievers. Strangely enough Christianity shares many of the Islamic beliefs and tenets and their books have most of the same stories, yet they see Muslims as unbelievers.	pctek (84)
1245843	2011-11-29 18:25:00	Meh, I know Christians who consider the Catholic church to be so far removed from the teachings of the bible that it is a church of satan, the ultimate trick on gods children. This of course makes the pope the most evil figure on earth. Can't fix crazy, when people are actively looking for demons they tend to find them.	Metla (12)
1245844	2011-11-29 19:36:00	I've got most of Dawkins' books, but have gone off them. Dawkins is a John Key type of person - all pleasantness but lacking substance where it really counts. I dislike Dawkin's reliance on metaphor (the equivalent of Key's smiles). Dawkins is also totally inept at physics. On one occasion he used radioactive disintegration as an example of non-randomness! (Physicists of course use it as the classic example of randomness) If one strips away the metaphor and talented writing, some gaping holes appear in Dawkins' logic. If it weren't for the fossil record the theory of evolution would be a crock	BBCmicro (15761)
1245845	2011-11-29 20:46:00	Meh, I know Christians who consider the Catholic church to be so far removed from the teachings of the bible that it is a church of satan, the ultimate trick on gods children. This of course makes the pope the most evil figure on earth. True. Until recently, Catholics did not (or were not allowed to) read the Bible. Many Christians do not consider Catholics to be Christians. Then of course there are the Mormons and other 'sects' which many Christians dismiss. I guess it may be the same with Sunnis and Shiites...? But the Holy Roman Catholics can in fact rest assured that they are the one true church, and not created by Henry the VIII or Josef Smith. Oh wait, wasn't there The Great Split or whatever it was called (Schism?), way way long time ago when the Western Church - Roman Catholics - split with the orthodox Eastern church. What a mess. Any serious investigation into Christian Church history - especially the Popes - is a damning indictment...	Strommer (42)
1245846	2011-11-30 04:34:00	Meh, I know Christians who consider the Catholic church to be so far removed from the teachings of the bible that it is a church of satan, the ultimate trick on gods children. This of course makes the pope the most evil figure on earth. I'm standing right beside you on that one Metla. The Catholic Church is a business but it is not about saving souls, if it was the leaders would follow true christian teaching and take a vow of poverty instead of sucking money out of people who can barely feed their families. Their main asset is wall to wall, cradle to grave guilt exploitation. Billy	Billy T (70)
1245847	2011-11-30 05:07:00	I'm standing right beside you on that one Metla. The Catholic Church is a business but it is not about saving souls, if it was the leaders would follow true christian teaching and take a vow of poverty instead of sucking money out of people who can barely feed their families. Their main asset is wall to wall, cradle to grave guilt exploitation. Billy +1	tuiruru (12277)
1245848	2011-11-30 21:41:00	Just a passing afterthought: How many actual posters (as opposed to browsers) in this thread (of either or any persuasion) have actually read 'The God Delusion', or any of Dawkin's other books, such as 'The Blind Watchmaker' ? It is easy to find quotes fronm his critics, but to actually read his works and form your own opinions is to argue and/or debate from a foundation of fact and informed opinion. Other Dawkins titles include 'A Devil's Chaplain', 'The Selfish Gene', 'The Extended Phenotype', 'The Ancestors Tale', 'River Out Of Eden', 'Unweaving the Rainbow', 'Climbing Mount Improbable', and 'The Geatest Show on Earth'. It would be interesting to know how wide his readership is. Present company excepted, I reckon it is a fairly safe bet that many of his critics haven't, especially the creationists, they'd probably rather burn them. :devil Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
1245849	2011-11-30 21:50:00	I'm standing right beside you on that one Metla. The Catholic Church is a business but it is not about saving souls, if it was the leaders would follow true christian teaching and take a vow of poverty instead of sucking money out of people who can barely feed their families. Their main asset is wall to wall, cradle to grave guilt exploitation. Billy I never said that was my opinion, Personally I consider the church only survives due to the wishes of the supporters, and they are supporting it for their reasons, they are getting what they want, Good on all of them. I was just pointing out that some Christians cane claim other Christians who are all reading from the same book to be satanic, so its no great surprise that they view Muslims as unbelievers even if they share a common prophet..	Metla (12)
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