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Thread ID: 124673	2012-05-12 03:02:00	Why I still don't like Linux	Tony (4941)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1274920	2012-06-04 21:22:00	Cool, thanks for the offer, great to see you still sticking around PF1 after all these years! :D	Chilling_Silence (9)
1274921	2012-06-04 22:22:00	I shan't be converting to Linux as a long-term OS . This is not because I have anything in particular against Linux as an OS, but because I have too much knowledge and work tied up in Windows to make it worth changing . I could of course have Windows machines running in VirtualBox like Yorick, but why would I bother? If I was starting afresh, it might be different, although the gripes I had in earlier posts still stand . I eventually found PCLinuxOS which is the nearest thing I have found to a newbie-friendly distro, but I had to wade through a lot of dross to get there . It seems to me Linux still has too much geek baggage to make it as a general user OS . The things I like about Linux are also the things that annoy me! Remember I am talking here as someone who might be looking to use Linux as the main OS for real work, not as a hobby . I like the fact that it is infinitely customisable . I hate that to do so you have to wade through obscurely named distros and apps that have names that seem to bear no relationship to their function to get there . I also think this customisability is what confuses newbies . I like that there is usually a lot of help both inside the programs and out in the community . I hate that the help is often couched in obscure language that often has an "insider" feel to it . I think Linux is a good OS, and much easier to install and use than it used to be but outside the techo/geek community (and I include myself in that category :))will remain a minority on the desktop for the foreseeable future .	Tony (4941)
1274922	2012-06-05 11:17:00	Good to see . Personally I could never see the fascination with Debian based distributions, the RPM based ones always seemed to be more user friendly . This is the beauty of open source . I have been using Linux since 1998 on my desktop (2001 exclusively) - Redhat, Mandriva, PCLinux, SuSe, = all RPM distros until a recent change to Ubuntu . The reason I changed was due to (IMO) Ubuntu being more user friendly than RPM based systems . Examples that come to mind are: 1 . Browsing a WIndows LAN just seems to work out of the box in Ubuntu compared to say CentOS (currently using in the classroom) . 2 . It seems too easy to "break" Software Update - Synaptic and it's replacement just work . 3 . Redhat based systems require CLI editing for proxy settings (at least out of the box) . For me SuSE was the worst distribution I have ever tried (probably 10 years ago admittedly) . It was unstable and ruined my OpenOffice files . So - experience differs!!	johnd (85)
1274923	2012-06-05 11:52:00	Cool, thanks for the offer, great to see you still sticking around PF1 after all these years! :D Heh, I get here occasionally. Although I wouldn't fit the prolific poster mold, I need to make more of an effort instead of the occasional drive by to annoy the 'Softies.	Yorick (8120)
1274924	2012-06-05 13:39:00	I shan't be converting to Linux as a long-term OS . This is not because I have anything in particular against Linux as an OS, but because I have too much knowledge and work tied up in Windows to make it worth changing This is actually the critical issue and the sticking point as well . The statement is actually only logical if all the Windows learning was going to disappear and of course it's not . You are not going take out one block of knowledge and replace it with another, you are in fact adding to your knowledge, never a bad thing . It is a well known tenet that a Windows Admin is hopeless in a Linux environment whereas a Linux admin can always get by in Windows . Any change has to have a value proposition, a pay back for the effort expended on new learning . In fact the value proposition is very easy to justify and as I said earlier the pay back was huge: Lifetime upgrades for free, I'm not waiting for vapourware and then having to cough for it in ever incremental leaps depending on what version I want/need Security, I haven't had to buy Antivirus or Firewall software since the switch, secure and great value . The only programmes That I have to have a windows install for is my CAD software: SolidWorks everything else from Sound studio and music production to accounting, all on Linux native software Choice: Of Desktop Environment, of Vendor, of packager, of applications Broad usage ability . From a single OpenSuSE DVD I can set up anything from a Laptop to a mainframe, from a standard desktop to a business server running multiple thin clients over a network, from netbook to webserver . The DVD comes with the software that runs 70% of the internet, all this capability at whatever cost I am willing to pay . Scaleability . My business can expand and I can add desktops, servers, thin clients even clusters and I have no worries about trying to keep track of licenses and having to budget for those and the accountant I would have to hire to figure out how the licensing worked . I could of course have Windows machines running in VirtualBox like Yorick, but why would I bother? If I was starting afresh, it might be different, although the gripes I had in earlier posts still stand . I eventually found PCLinuxOS which is the nearest thing I have found to a newbie-friendly distro, but I had to wade through a lot of dross to get there . It seems to me Linux still has too much geek baggage to make it as a general user OS . That particular line of thought keeps being trumpeted as truth even tho it is patently and provably nonsense . The Dross and the learning curve and the "Geek" content is no different to windows . To 95% of the population windows is as geeky as linux, there are just more People on the Windows side and Linux being a group of volunteers doesn't have the 5 billion dollar annual marketing budget . The things I like about Linux are also the things that annoy me! Remember I am talking here as someone who might be looking to use Linux as the main OS for real work, not as a hobby . What??? I don't do real work . . . . Internet server admins aren't doing real work, Weta Studios don't do real work, The electoral commission doesn't do real work, the REAA doesn't do real work . I've been working at a hobby all this time and I didn't know it . Damn! does this mean I have to give all this money back! Oh Bugger! </sarcasm> The truth is Tony, when Richard Stallman started GNU all that time ago at MIT, MSDOS was a toy, for a simple kids box that had a single processor, could only handle a single user and didn't know what a network was . The *nixes were designed to run multiple processors with multiple users securely over a network . Even Apple eventually saw the light and OSX is FreeBSD based . And I have done real work with a Linux desktop for around ten years . It was because I couldn't do real work with Windows without being extorted that I switched (Old schoolers will remember the debacle when Off97 came out and produced files that Off95 couldn't read) That value is hard to beat . I like the fact that it is infinitely customisable . I hate that to do so you have to wade through obscurely named distros and apps that have names that seem to bear no relationship to their function to get there . I also think this customisability is what confuses newbies . But the point is; you don't need to customise it if you don't want to . The install, especially if going on a dedicated machine has really good defaults . You can install OpenSUSE just by putting in the DVD and booting, select install, select locality and language and putting in a login name and password and then just keep clicking "next" (this bit takes about 5 mins then you just let it do it's thing) . In about 35 minutes you will have a computer that will do most everything you need and have all the productivity applications installed(Unlike windows where your installation has ony just started) not a lot you can do with just Win7 on the comp . And it will look and feel and function really well . I like that there is usually a lot of help both inside the programs and out in the community . I hate that the help is often couched in obscure language that often has an "insider" feel to it . That's not just a "Linux" thing, that's a "computer-geek" thing, remember the "IT Crowd" I think Linux is a good OS, and much easier to install and use than it used to be but outside the techo/geek community (and I include myself in that category :))will remain a minority on the desktop for the foreseeable future . The only criteria should be: Does it do what I need it to do . Is it value for money Is it reliable Is it secure The Techie Geek thing these days is really a red herring . Android is linux, smartphones and tablets are taking over PC functions . The average user doesn't give a toss if it's Linux, UNICS, BSD, Windows, ARM, RISCOS, Apple OSX, Minix or whatever as long as it performs . By 2015 MS will be using OSS as the basis of their OS, it'll probably be based on a kernel available under a permissive license like FreeBSD and no-one will give a damn .	Yorick (8120)
1274925	2012-06-05 14:14:00	Good post Yorick. A lot of the time people are just trying to confirm the chooses they have made.	mikebartnz (21)
1274926	2012-06-05 14:14:00	This is the beauty of open source . I have been using Linux since 1998 on my desktop (2001 exclusively) - Redhat, Mandriva, PCLinux, SuSe, = all RPM distros until a recent change to Ubuntu . The reason I changed was due to (IMO) Ubuntu being more user friendly than RPM based systems . Examples that come to mind are: 1 . Browsing a WIndows LAN just seems to work out of the box in Ubuntu compared to say CentOS (currently using in the classroom) . 2 . It seems too easy to "break" Software Update - Synaptic and it's replacement just work . 3 . Redhat based systems require CLI editing for proxy settings (at least out of the box) . I have to make an admission here, I not a great fan of RedHat, the first one i tried was 7 . 2 IIRC it was a bad install and required me to do command line stuff . (tried Fedora 16 not so long ago, install still sux) Not being a CLI type I wanted something that worked exlusively from a gui manager . The first OS that did that was Mandrake 8 . 0 with Mandrake Control Centre which even in a terminal had an ncurses version, I carried on using Mandrake till 10 . 1 and it went a bit to the pack . Around then Novell signed a deal with MinEd and because I had several schools as customers I changed to SUSE . That was version 9 . 2 and it had YAST and you haven't had to do any admin stuff in a CLI in SUSE since before then, including proxy settings . Software updates in SuSE are very simple using a gui software manager that uses zypper in behind . Zypper is next generation of software managers beyond synaptic . Synaptic is getting a bit long in the tooth . For me SuSE was the worst distribution I have ever tried (probably 10 years ago admittedly) . Why is it that people say this stuff, it's like saying Win 7 is rubbish, does BSOD all the time and has a crap file system because you had a bad experience with Win98 . Ten years in Linux is a lifetime It was unstable and ruined my OpenOffice files . So - experience differs!! Some does, however modern experience i . e . in the last few months shows me at present, overall ease of use OpenSUSE and Mageia are the top two in terms install and system management . Ubuntu still insists on CLI for many fixups and CLI is a non starter unless one is a Linux sysadmin . A user only going near the CLI on occasion is not going to remember all the commands and command line syntax . A gui administrator by contrast has visual clues for the occasional user to pick up on . Both Mageia and SUSE (MCC and YAST the respective managers) use very good GUI system management tools .	Yorick (8120)
1274927	2012-06-05 14:25:00	A user only going near the CLI on occasion is not going to remember all the commands and command line syntax. A gui administrator by contrast has visual clues for the occasional user to pick up on. Both Mageia and SUSE (MCC and YAST the respective managers) use very good GUI system management tools. but CLI can be very good when supporting someone as they can do a copy and paste whereas with the GUI their setup may be different to yours so what they see isn't what you see. I use both depending on which I find easier.	mikebartnz (21)
1274928	2012-06-05 14:41:00	It was because I couldn't do real work with Windows without being extorted that I switched (Old schoolers will remember the debacle when Off97 came out and produced files that Off95 couldn't read) Nobody was forcing any of them to buy Office 97. They could all have kept using Office 95 and had no compatibility issues.	Agent_24 (57)
1274929	2012-06-05 22:28:00	Nobody was forcing any of them to buy Office 97. They could all have kept using Office 95 and had no compatibility issues. A little naive. That would have worked if no one upgraded but if one person upgrades it then becomes a necessity for others to do so to become compatible.	mikebartnz (21)
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