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Thread ID: 122956	2012-01-23 17:17:00	Tin Whiskers & Toyota's Denial (With A Little Help From NHTSA)	SurferJoe46 (51)	PC World Chat

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1255664	2012-01-23 17:17:00	I personally know of the knuckle-draggin' attitude the NHTSA has shown over the years since the GM/Corvair Crucifixion and Ralph Nader barf-up, so this doesn't cause me any sudden shock . See what youse guys think though . I paid for this article, so I can post it . Oh yeah - this is a somewhat long (but not my longest) post . Toyota has reckoned with a wrenching crisis of confidence, acknowledging reports that some of its best-selling vehicles have been prone to accelerating while drivers step on the brakes, the car giant has consistently maintained that its electronic systems are not the culprit for a series of lethal accidents . Sometimes floor mats have been to blame, said Toyota, prompting recalls . Sometimes moisture has gotten inside gas pedals and caused them to stick, triggering another recall . And still other times drivers have hit the wrong pedal with their foot, the company has said . But when NASA conducted an investigation, it found no evidence of electronic malfunctions, according to the resulting report . When that study was released last February, Toyota and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration both seized on that conclusion as proof that Toyota's electronic systems were beyond reproach -- a contention amplified widely in media accounts . But buried within that same report are details that safety experts construe as disturbing evidence of problems potentially afflicting the electronic systems governing the gas pedal -- problems that Toyota and the highway safety agency have so far dismissed . Investigators found so-called tin whiskers -- which grow on tin when it is electrified and can conduct electricity to unintended places -- inside the electronic systems in Toyota Camry gas pedals, according to the report . These wiry fibers of metal are thinner than a human hair and can sprout unpredictably . They have been implicated in crippling defects besetting a range of equipment, including communications satellites, pacemakers, missiles and nuclear power plants . The study falls well short of identifying tin whiskers as a cause in fatal accidents involving sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles . But safety advocates say the mere confirmed presence of tin whiskers demands deeper investigation before such a causal link can be ruled out . Even sudden acceleration at slow speed can cause cars to run through stop signs, perhaps resulting in fatalities, they say . "It's not potentially dangerous; it's absolutely dangerous," said Sean Kane, founder and president of Safety Research & Strategies, a Massachusetts-based auto safety consulting firm . "If you talk to anyone in the field, they'll tell you it's dangerous . NHTSA is trying to minimize what it means . " For Toyota, the world's second largest auto manufacturer, the existence of tin whiskers in one of its most popular models presents the latest in a string of troubling disclosures about the safety of its vehicles . The account of alleged acceleration problems linked to a highly publicized series of fatal accidents has shaken the company to its core, placing one of the business world's most admired brands under the harsh light of legal and regulatory scrutiny . The company maintains that the issue of tin whiskers has already been fully examined, yielding no reason for additional concern . "Our systems are designed to reduce the risk of tin whiskers in the first place," said Toyota spokesman John Hanson . "And we have many fail-safe systems in place to counter any short circuits that might happen . " A spokeswoman for the NHTSA concurred that tin whiskers do not pose an area of concern, reiterating that agency's position that the NASA report eliminates such worries . "NHTSA is monitoring the issue, but there is currently no indication of a safety concern that would warrant further action," said the spokeswoman, Lynda Tran . The debate over tin whiskers, largely out of the public eye -- among scientists and car safety advocates -- is the latest thread of concern stemming from the high-profile safety concerns that began dogging Toyota vehicles three years ago . In late 2009, Toyota issued a recall citing evidence that floor mats in some models were apparently getting stuck under the gas pedal, causing acceleration . In early 2010, Toyota issued a second recall, saying some gas pedals could stick, continuing to add gas to the engine even after a driver took a foot off the pedal . In a February 2011 report that accompanied the NASA study, NHTSA identified a third cause: Drivers sometimes press on the gas when they mean to step on the brake . But outside safety experts have long speculated that a fourth cause could be at play in cases of unintended acceleration: faulty electronics . In March 2010, the highway satety agency asked NASA to investigate, prompting the investigation whose results the agency published last February . Tin whiskers are discussed on pages 17, 112 to 117 and 171 of the resulting 177-page report . NHTSA, which is responsible for overseeing driver safety and pushing automakers to conduct recalls in response to problems, says the study determined that the tin whisker effect in Camry sedans is minimal and not dangerous . The problem can cause engine revving, surging and hesitation . But all those issues are eliminated as soon as a driver take the foot off the gas, NHTSA asserted on the basis of an analysis of NASA's data, consumer complaints and Toyota's warranty data . The agency concluded that it was effectively impossible for tin whiskers to have caused Toyota vehicles to have accelerated out of control . "Neither NASA nor NHTSA has any evidence indicating that tin whiskers have caused high-speed, unintended acceleration or are capable of doing so," Tran said . But the details of the report reveal that NASA and NHTSA based their conclusions on a tiny sample of evidence . The analysis looked at just three gas pedals . Two of the pedals came from drivers who complained their cars lunged forward when they pressed on the gas pedal . The third came from a car in a junkyard . Despite the fact that all three pedals were passed around -- one was shipped via FedEx across country, and no one knows how the car in the junkyard was handled -- the fragile, thin tin whiskers stayed intact . NASA found tin whiskers in all three pedals . None of the inspected pedals were from cars that experienced high-speed unintended acceleration, the circumstance of greatest concern . NHTSA brushed off suggestions from safety and electronics experts that it needed to examine those sorts of gas pedals, asserting that it had already conclusively determined that tin whiskers could not cause high-speed sudden acceleration . Furthermore, NHTSA said, the tin whisker problem is rare, affecting a small number of 2002 to 2006 Toyota cars . Toyota also dismissed suggestions from outside critics that tin whiskers could pose a problem . The issue happens infrequently, Toyota said, and when it happens, cars automatically react and go into what's called "limp home mode . " That limits how fast the car can go, and drivers are forced to consult a mechanic to figure out what's wrong . But researchers at the University of Maryland's Center for Advanced Life Cycle Engineering published a paper last fall saying they found evidence of more tin whiskers in Toyota gas pedals . They examined pedals from two Toyotas -- a 2005 Toyota Camry and a 2002 Camry -- probing them with X-ray fluoroscopes and scanning electron microscopes to look at the inner workings . They found six tin whiskers growing inside one of the pedals and two inside the other . Based on how many tin whiskers they discovered and how many NASA found, they estimated that the whiskers could cause shorting failures in 140 out of 1 million vehicles, which could result in more sudden acceleration cases . Given that Toyota sold 3 . 3 million cars in the past two years alone, such a rate would amount to a significant problem . Some experts at NASA -- the agency NHTSA relies on as basis for its contentions -- have offered a more complex depiction of the potential problems of tin whiskers, one that appears to undermine the central notion that the fibers of metal are not a problem . Last fall, Henning Leidecker, an expert for NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland, gave a presentation that lent credence to the idea that tin whiskers could render any car with this problem effectively inoperable . Leidecker used X-rays and microscopes to examine a gas pedal from Albuquerque that was malfunctioning . He found two tin whiskers inside . One whisker was long enough to bridge the internal electronics and was causing a short . Leidecker discovered that the specific gas pedal would work fine if depressed quickly . But when pushed slowly, the accelerator jumped and sped up suddenly . If pressed even harder, the throttle sometimes opened entirely, as if the driver were pressing intending to speed up rapidly . "Although the vehicle would operate, we did not consider it to be drivable," he wrote in the presentation . Leidecker told The Huffington Post he was willing to discuss his presentation but asked that an interview request be cleared by NASA's public affairs department, which subsequently referred questions back to the Department of Transportation, the overseer of NHTSA . A NHTSA spokeswoman reiterated the agency's position that the NASA report backed up claims that Toyota's electronic systems have not caused incidence of sudden acceleration . THE CASE IN ALBUQUERQUE A driver from Albuquerque, N . M . , was one of the first people to catch NHTSA's attention with an acceleration problem . She filed a complaint through NHTSA's Office of Defect Investigations, stating that her 2003 Toyota Camry would hesitate when she pressed on the gas and then would surge forward . Although her name was stricken from the resulting NHTSA complaint, the details of the incident are not . The NASA report cites the substance of her complaint . According to the report, the driver complained that in November 2009 the accelerator on her 2003 Toyota Camry began performing erratically . "When stepping on the gas pedal, I couldn't get any gas, and the car would jerk forward at a rapid rate so that I had to apply the brakes," she told NHTSA . "It was totally undrivable . " After several months, the agency reached out to the woman and spoke to her by phone in conversations that are not included in NHTSA's public record . Emails in NHTSA's database show that the agency asked her to ship her gas pedal to investigators in Washington . The agency then forwarded the pedal to NASA . The tiny, brittle tin whiskers inside the part stayed intact despite the fact they were shipped across country . Investigators found two tin whiskers – one 1 . 9 millimeters in length and one 1 . 5 millimeters long and about 1/10th to 1/100th the width of a human hair . One of the whiskers was causing part of the accelerator to short out, according to the report . The agency also examined other accelerator pedals, including the one from the junkyard . Those, too, contained tin whiskers in similar locations, according to the report, though they had yet to cause problems in the functionality of the pedals . NHTSA and Toyota say there is no evidence the tin whiskers cause cars to accelerate out of control . The Albuquerque driver was still able to brake, they argue, and when she lifted her foot off the gas, the engine stopped revving . Toyota said the fail-safe modes kick in when there is a short, forcing the car into "limp home mode," which tops out the speed at 35 mph to 45 mph . "It induces deceleration, so it's almost the opposite effect" of sudden acceleration, he said . But the Albuquerque driver told NHTSA that her vehicle had, on the contrary, jerked forward rapidly when she pressed on the gas . Hanson said he wasn't sure if Toyota had examined her gas pedal . The release of the NASA report last year prompted a letter to NHTSA from Gordon Davy, a retired materials engineer from Northrup Grumman who had previously inspected failed relay switch boxes from E3 radar planes and discovered they were covered in tin whiskers . He urged NHTSA to reconsider its reassurances about the sanctity of Toyota's electronic systems, arguing that the agency's findings were not supported by the available facts: The mere presence of tin whiskers makes accidents a real threat, even as accidents are rare . "Dismissing the lessons learned from decades of study of tin whiskers and the failures and countermeasures employed by other industries in the case of motor vehicle unintended acceleration is too dangerous," he wrote, adding, "Lives are at stake . " I know, having been in the repair end of the automotive game where I saw that the stipulations and technically just-plain-crazy decisions made by NHTSA were specious and most time had/have a tinge of protectionism on the vehicles that need to be criminally reconsidered if only the manufacturer hadn't pushed so many plain brown envelopes under the doors of certain members of the highly-vaulted offices . One in particular was the Chevy pickup truck-fuel tank placement test where NHTSA rigged explosives in the fuel filler necks to create a flaming inferno that damned General Motors, when in the real world, the Ford Mustang which had the rear floor of the trunk (NZ= boot) was also the top of a very thin fuel tank . In my opinion NHTSA as a legally-operating, Federally Sanctioned whore of some serious but dubious clout even though it is on the take from major players in the automotive dungeons (can you say: Toyota and Kia?) where these decisions and denials are created, given birth to and then promulgated to the public - or just swept under the rug in tons of paperwork and writs and obfuscation . That fact is out'd and obviated by this Huffington article . LINK::: . huffingtonpost . com/2012/01/21/toyota-sudden-acceleration-tin-whiskers_n_1221076 . html?ref=daily-brief?utm_source=DailyBrief&utm_campaign=012312&utm_medium=email&utm_content=NewsEntry&utm_term=Daily%20Brief" target="_blank">www . huffingtonpost . com	SurferJoe46 (51)
1255665	2012-01-23 22:35:00	But the details of the report reveal that NASA and NHTSA based their conclusions on a tiny sample of evidence. The analysis looked at just three gas pedals. Two of the pedals came from drivers who complained their cars lunged forward when they pressed on the gas pedal. The third came from a car in a junkyard. Despite the fact that all three pedals were passed around -- one was shipped via FedEx across country, and no one knows how the car in the junkyard was handled -- the fragile, thin tin whiskers stayed intact. NASA found tin whiskers in all three pedals. Interesting. One thing I learnt about corporate lab testing for many years - of which I was registered with NZ Telarc, (www.telarc.co.nz/) for mechanical testing, and tested for major NZ produce exporters, one cannot depend solely on standard (even approved) documented bench tests. Some form of durability (requiring innovation sometimes) and complimentary field/environmental testing can produce more meaningful results, or better representation of the cause or event. Then the entire process needs to be demonstrated to be precision reproducible (amongst other certified labs or agencies - known as round robins (www.statisticalengineering.com) stat testing) with statistical relevant methodologies. Then perhaps audited independently. Then their are what standards are utilized for suitability - I assume ASTM (http://www.astm.org/) procedures were included by NASA. Or do they have their own? Sort of reminds me of the movie I enjoyed - Class Action (en.wikipedia.org) with Gene Hackman, based on the Ford Pinto (en.wikipedia.org) controversy. Though I guess the legal system and mass plaintiffs need be involved for a class action.	kahawai chaser (3545)
1255666	2012-01-23 23:48:00	"the Albuquerque driver told NHTSA that her vehicle had, on the contrary, jerked forward rapidly when she pressed on the gas." Call me Mr. Silly, but isn't that what's SUPPOSED to happen in a car when you push down on the accelerator? :lol:	Agent_24 (57)
1255667	2012-01-24 01:42:00	Yeah - a small sample indeed, but whiskers should not be there anyway. That they even exist is beyond controversy I feel.	SurferJoe46 (51)
1255668	2012-01-24 04:55:00	Tin whiskers are a well known phenomena in the vintage radio world (That's for radios not quite as old as you Joe :D ) and they infest the insides of certain transistor types. In fact I have a heap of them here right now in some vintage transistors from the late 1950's and the 1960's. They are very fragile and can be broken by vibration so perhaps some of those trucks need to go off-road once in a while. Seriously though, the gestation period for tin whiskers has until now perhaps been measured in terms of several decades and they cannot tolerate any voltage because they are like little fuses and pop if you look at them, being only a few microns thick. Maybe metallurgy took a wrong turn somewhere and created a super-whisker generator (I'm not joking) but I'm really surprised that tin coatings in micro-electronics have continued in use, given their well-known habit of suffering from early puberty and growing beards before their teens. The whiskers grow across airspaces and between surfaces with differing electrical potentials, and will grow through silicon grease or other inert substances, but to the best of my knowledge (at this stage) they can't grow through plastic insulation. The jury is out, but if it is true, it suggests that lessons learned many years ago, at great expense, have been forgotten or ignored. NASA has some photos Here (nepp.nasa.gov) Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
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