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Thread ID: 13819	2001-12-18 02:27:00	Computer use in primary schools - need input.	Guest (0)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
27896	2001-12-18 02:27:00	I've just seen a plan for world domination by way of purchasing PCs for the local primary school. There has to be a better, cheaper, more useful way. Anyone out there have experience of the good, the bad, and the ugly? In particular: - is one PC in each classroom any real use? - is it better to have a suite with one machine per pupil? - has anyone done a nice planned rollout of machines with apps installed, security locked down, and then distributed using Ghost or similar? - how many printers do they really need? - how long do computers last in a school? I reckon give them to the seniors, then after a year roll them down to middle school, then a year later roll them down to juniors. - I have issues with pre-literate children getting much out of computers at all, except maybe encouraging them to read. Can't see them getting much out of Word and Excel. I would love to hear from people who have good and bad comments. There has to be a smart way of doing this, without wasting scarce resources. Robo.	Guest (0)
27897	2001-12-18 03:16:00	Rob, as a high school student I have noticed a couple of things about computers in school. They need to be good, when I first started at this school they had 386's running Win3.11, the computers were **** so people treated them like ****. Now they have Celeron 600's (I think) dumb arses using WinME, the only problem now is that some of the students that are into their computers whip the cover off and nick off home with some new RAM. The idea of one computer in each class, fine for looking up the occasional thing on the net to help settle a debate in class. Also would come in real handy for the teachers doing referals (cut down the paperwork and instant message to the other class that someone is being sent over). If a school is going to have computers they need to have a lab or two, with enough computers for a class to use. With the type of computers in the school, I think the way to go is to lease computers because that way they get repaired, maintained and upgraded at the end of the contract. If the school owns the computers they will probably end up getting to the stage where they are like the 386's we used to have. Also the school needs to have a dedicated computer technician and preferably have computing classes as well. In the way of printers, one per lab, and one per block of classes if going for the computer in each class. School can also earn money by renting out the lab in the evenings to someone that holds night classes in computing. Hope this helps JM PS. The school should have SETI running as well, because there's a lot of time the computers aren't being used. If students have access to the internet make it reasonably quick. 30+ students on the net at once getting info for an economics assignment (read downloading mp3's) can be darned annoying when its slow and becomes a waste of class time.	Guest (0)
27898	2001-12-18 04:58:00	As an ex-high school student (i left last year) and the son of a high school librarian i have come to a few conclusions. A decent computer suite with enough computers for a class of students to use with a few extra for individuals doing other work at the same time is good. Maybe two or three suites of this size depending on the amount of usage. However, the latest and greatest computers or even the lowly pentium makes absolutely no difference if there is no staff capable of using the things or teaching the kids how to use them, all that gets done is time-wasting. Before a school looks at getting the computers, they need to consider exactly what they will be used for, as most tasks in a school forum DO NOT NEED computers, they are nice but not NEEDED. If the computers are to be used for research, consider intead a decent (trained) librarian, and a decent budget for purchasing books and other written material, and a few computers in the library for research. School research projects are basic, and as such do not require up to the minute info on most cases (there are some exceptions) and all the information can be found in a decent library. Also if a student is taught research skills using books and written material then finding material on the net is easy as the skills are similar. However, in most cases in schools the students are given a project to do, taken to the computer suite and told to find the info, with no staff capable of helping them all that gets done (as JM says) is downloading music, simply because students know how to do this. The only way that i can see for having computers in schools successfully is to have a several teachers whos sole job is to take students in the computer suites and assist them with their work in coordination with their own subject teachers. Subject teachers have enough work to do as it is without also having to teach the students how to use the computers and as such it should be a specialised job. If the computers are to be used for word processing and other tasks i feel it is also necessary to have staff dedicated to the job of teaching the students how to do the work properly. My point here is that if a student is dumped in to a task without decent teaching and help regardless of whether they are on computers or not they will generally stuff around instead doing of the task at hand. If computers are purchased, a technician is an absolute must also, as the computers WILL get fiddled with by curious students. I feel that a full-time technician is needed for every 500-600 pupils, otherwise there is no way all the work can be done.	Guest (0)
27899	2001-12-18 04:59:00	Rob, send me an email and I'll put you in touch with my dad, who's in charge of IT at his primary school, and I'm sure he'll tell you anything you want to know... you do have some secret way of finding my email address, don't you? :) I think they have a couple of computer suites (at least one that I know of) plus at least one computer in each class...	Guest (0)
27900	2001-12-18 08:07:00	I think it's a bit of a case of keep up, or get left behind. My youngest sons school which goes up to year 8 (form 2 to you Rob ) is just building a new I.T. block. When this is finished, it will bring the number of computers in the school to about 50 (for student use). Us oldies (anybody over 30)can tend to get left 'a bit behind the times'. Remember the days when you weren't allowed to use a calculator at school, well now they are allowed to use them for everything, including S.C. Remember that jurno, who once quoted, 'don't fight it, go with the flow'. Well I think anyone who tries to fight this, will lose. So lets go with the flow, and try to help set things up, in the best way we know how.	Guest (0)
27901	2001-12-18 11:12:00	Hi there, In the interest of maximising resources, my inclination would be to spend 60%++ of the resources on a central server, then use a set of thin client workstations to connect to it... This way, using a 486 with a decent video card and a 100 base Tx card will appear like something of around 500mhz, depending on how fast the server is. At Nayland College (My school) they have about 450 computers, for 1400 students, and about 50 of them are running off a single server. It is dual p3 800 with 1 gig of ram. Nowadays you could assemble a dual Athlon MP 1200mhz and 2 gigs of ram for under $3000... But more to the point, I don't feel that computers are necessary in a primary school for 99% of the things that primary school kids need to do. I think that greater emphasis should be placed on the simple ability to learn well, and to get into good habits for secondary school... I noticed at my primary school that the computers (one per classroom) were being put to very poor use, mostly a tool for keeping children inside at lunchtime... Erin	Guest (0)
27902	2001-12-18 11:50:00	As the computer manager at a high school in my experience a couple of things are essential you need to have good network support and someone to do the technicians job of just maintaining the computers in the classrooms. Leasing is probably one of the ways to go. We will be looking seriously at this next year. It also helps that all computers on the network run the same versions of the software. Microsofts package is great for next year but few schools will be able to use it due to the age/ specication of the hardware We find that computers generally have to last around 5 years and we do the rotation thing and have one lab of the lowest spec up to newest comps in Admin and Library. The govt needs to come up with some help fpr schools in this respect. Unfortunately comuters can be a bottomless pit as far as the budget is concerned	Guest (0)
27903	2001-12-18 20:44:00	I think computers have their place in schools, but it shouldn't be at the cost of a basic education. I am a slightly older student at Massey studying for an IS degree and a lot of the kid's coming into the degree can use the likes of Flash, Access with the best of them. The problem is they have problem's with the basic's such as how to write a report so then Massey has to spend time on papers that teach the basics of communication. A lot of people involved in computing forget that computers are not the 'be all and end all' of the world, I know a lot of people that see no real need for them and would rather see their kid's being taught the basic's such as how to add 2+2 without a calculator. I think at the end of the day it all needs to be kept in perspective, when I went to school you had optional subjects such as Metalworking, Woodworking and Home Economics. With all the emphasis on computing in schools we may eventually see a generation of computing wizards and a lack of people involved in the trades then where will we be.	Guest (0)
27904	2001-12-18 21:41:00	From reading the comments I think everyone is in general agreement, but how do we inform the schools? Is there a way to actually get a good system up and running for them for a minimum cost? Quite often the school has fundraised and saved like crazy to afford the computers in the first place. Perhaps this is an ideal small business idea for someone with the knowledge to set up the systems?? How about volunteers to help teach the teachers?? or do simple servicing on the network or machines? Or sponsorship?? if not in the form of money maybe in goods etc....computer sellers, wholesalers and suppliers?? Any other ideas??	Guest (0)
27905	2001-12-18 22:02:00	We seem to be on a roll again. I personally think PCs should be a tool for school, not a subject. Kids should learn how to type, how to manage files, that sort of thing. Then, they can use them for everything else, faster and better than doing it manually. Like they do with calculators and pens. But as Dipstick says, there has to be a way of getting them configured so they are robust, don't keel over, can be rebuilt without any trouble, and are easy to maintain. The thing that bothers me the most is the idea of wasting money on gear they don't adequately exploit, when they could have hired an extra teacher for five years. Keep going with your ideas of good and bad. Robo.	Guest (0)
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