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| Thread ID: 123673 | 2012-03-10 08:10:00 | I converted my mum to Ubuntu Linux | goodiesguy (15316) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 1264152 | 2012-03-11 21:34:00 | Thats not the thread, it was a kernel error I was having, and yes here is the first port of call AFTER spending days looking on various other linux sites . Clearly you didn't read it properly, because it doesn't say that at all, and it's certainly not what the author of that document is trying to communicate . If you genuinely did read it, can you please quote whichever section it was that gave you this impression? You posted it yourself: If you're expecting detailed step-by-step instructions tailored to your particular problem that will allow you to solve it without effort or learning, then that's probably why you're having trouble getting assistance . Those kind of expectations almost always indicate that the OP fits most of the following:•They are lazy . •They lack either the skills or motivation to properly research things they don't understand . (great insult to someone trying to learn) •They usually haven't read the documentation . •They are either unwilling or unable to think logically about the problem . (great insult to someone trying to learn) This is one reason why Linux will never be a popular as in a home user environment, when you ask for help, expect insults like highlighted above, instead of actual help . Lets see a person who doesn't know Linux inside out and asking for help on how to do something they know nothing about . Most of the time even if the answer to a problem is answered its written in such a way that a person who doesn't know has no idea when to even start looking for settings etc . There was no documentation to be given anywhere,There were at the time 3-4 people with all the same problem and only answers like " thats easy to fix" . As I mentioned previously, people ask for help because they dont know how to do something, and sometimes people offering help seem to forget not everyones a know it all like they are . |
wainuitech (129) | ||
| 1264153 | 2012-03-11 21:53:00 | I've installed and setup linux on one of my machines several times over the years, but I always end up going back to windows . It's come a long way and is more user friendly than it ever was but it's still not ready for the average home user in my opinion . Sure I can get it up and running and browsing the net, checking E-mails, etc in a reasonably short time with little or no issues most of the time but when it comes to using it for anything else it seems there's a good chance I'll have to do some research to find a suitable program and then get instructions for how to set it up . The package managers are a big step in the right direction but still not good enough for everything . Any OS in this day and age that requires you to go out of the gui and use the command line to get a simple bit of software functioning is not ready for the mainstream in my opinion . One of my first experiences with linux was an attempt to set up a media pc with an analogue tv tuner . It took me a week of experimenting to get the software to recognise the tuner and display static, I never did convince it to actually tune anything in . By contrast the windows software took about 10 mins to install and get working . I know things have improved but when I considered having another crack at it recently it seems like there are new issues and linux always seems to lag months or even years behind on new technology, for example blu-ray playback under linux is not something easily achieved . It's great for the basics and can be made to do almost anything if you take the time to learn how, but for most of us it's just too much effort compared to windows which despite it's flaws generally just works . If your Mum just likes to use the internet and E-mail she'll probably be happy, but if she ever decides she want's to install something that's when it gets tricky . Try explaining to the computer illiterate why that windows xp sudoku game on the disk a friend gave them won't run on their machine because it uses linux . |
dugimodo (138) | ||
| 1264154 | 2012-03-11 22:04:00 | @WT You seem to be confusing 'help' with 'service'. People are willing to offer 'volunteer help'. People are less inclined to provide 'free service' on demand. |
fred_fish (15241) | ||
| 1264155 | 2012-03-11 22:27:00 | Thats not the thread, it was a kernel error I was having, and yes here is the first port of call AFTER spending days looking on various other linux sites.Any chance of a link? You posted it yourself: This is one reason why Linux will never be a popular as in a home user environment, when you ask for help, expect insults like highlighted above, instead of actual help.With respect, you're completely missing the point. I didn't post the list above to insult anyone; I posted it as an attempt to explain to you what your expectations are conveying. I'd also like to point out that people expressing these qualities are generally unwilling to learn; that's the reason they got filtered out in the first place! I'll try to explain this slightly differently, as it's clear you're not understanding the way it's phrased earlier: Most 'experts' who help other users do so because it provides them with some kind of benefit. Examples can include: Satisfaction gained from teaching others; Respect of peers; Enjoyment gained from solving tricky problems; Potential for reciprocation later; Improving the publicly available material on the subject at hand; Improving the available pool of people who have the skills to assist other users experiencing problems.As skilled people tend to be rather busy, they tend to filter questions on a time / value basis; i.e. is the benefit gained by assisting worth the time it takes to do so. Users who expect to be spoonfed generally fail this test. Here are some of the reasons why: Spoonfeeding results in answers that are too specific, and therefore will probably not be useful to others with similar problems. Overly specific answers can result in other users who don't understand that their problem is different blindly following the steps, and messing things up even more. The user asking for help doesn't learn anything from being spoonfed, and it wastes a lot of expert time. It would be far more gainful for the user to solve the problem in a way that increases their own knowledge base. If the problem can be solved by reading the documentation and applying logic, then 99% of the time this is a better option than spoonfeeding. It increases the knowledge of the user, and doesn't require wasting any expert time on a problem which has already been solved. Requesting to be spoonfed is effectively a statement that the expert's knowledge and time is of negligible value. It implies that the time the user saves through not having to think about the problem or attempt to find their own answer is worth more than the time spent by an expert answering the same question over and over again. Requiring spoonfeeding is generally an indication of laziness - if the user can't even be bothered to make an effort to help solve their own problem, then chances are they're not going to become a useful member of the community later and help other users. It's important to remember that most of the 'experts' you're talking about aren't paid, and as such are perfectly entitled to cherry-pick the questions they feel will result in the largest net benefit. If a user really does want to be spoonfed without learning more about the subject, and considers their time too valuable to waste on such research, then they should consider paying for support - many experts will be more than willing to participate in what they would otherwise consider a complete waste of time if you're paying them to care. Lets see a person who doesn't know Linux inside out and asking for help on how to do something they know nothing about.They do, many, many times every day. In most cases if they demonstrate a willingness to learn, and that they have thought about the issue, someone will happily assist. This does of course presume that they're asking in the right place; however if they have made the effort to research their problem, finding the correct venue to ask for help isn't usually an issue. Most of the time even if the answer to a problem is answered its written in such a way that a person who doesn't know has no idea when to even start looking for settings etc.Usually this means that either the user hasn't read the documentation or hasn't tried Google. In most cases, stuff like this is omitted under the assumption that the user has either already read the relevant material, or that material is easy for them to find. If a setting is genuinely difficult to locate, then just ask - most experts will be happy to point you in the right direction as long as it's clear you've made an effort. There was no documentation to be given anywhere,There were at the time 3-4 people with all the same problem and only answers like " thats easy to fix".As I said before, any chance of a link? It's rather had to discuss a thread I haven't read, and can't locate with either the forum search or Google. As I mentioned previously, people ask for help because they dont know how to do something, and sometimes people offering help seem to forget not everyones a know it all like they are.While that's occasionally the case, usually it's just an aversion to wasting time on people that seem unwilling to make an effort. If you demonstrate that you have tried, help is generally pretty easy to get. |
Erayd (23) | ||
| 1264156 | 2012-03-11 22:28:00 | @ Fred -- you my friend have just hit the nail on the head ;) On forums like PF1 and many others, theres generally two sides. The Social side, and the "help" side. If a person wants help from a forum, then generally the people offering solutions for problems do it for free, and willingly. Some people don't wont pay a service person for a call out to fix their problems if they can get it for free via a forum. People look for help in places like this, but where it all turns to custard is when suggestions made dont work, or no one will answer a question. People ask questions because they dont know, and places like that linked in Erayd link can actually be insulting to some people. dugimodo's post above speaks volumes about how a lot of people feel regarding linux. If you happen to know what you are doing with it - sweet as, but when things can and do go wrong - that can be another story, and that relates to any OS. |
wainuitech (129) | ||
| 1264157 | 2012-03-11 22:37:00 | Two of the software packages I use would be hard to use under Linux even with Wine I suspect. One is Solidworks which can also be quite resource hungry if your doing large assemblies the other is MYOB which I could probably get going with Wine. However it would take a fair bit of messing about to get them to work as they are Windows programs and under Windows they just work. I could probably find an alternative to MYOB for Linux but don't think any open source CAD program would be as powerful as Solidworks. I would make the switch if it was practicable as I already have a Linux file server |
gary67 (56) | ||
| 1264158 | 2012-03-11 22:50:00 | You can always install Linux and Windows and use both. | Agent_24 (57) | ||
| 1264159 | 2012-03-11 23:12:00 | @ Fred -- you my friend have just hit the nail on the head ;) On forums like PF1 and many others, theres generally two sides. The Social side, and the "help" side. If a person wants help from a forum, then generally the people offering solutions for problems do it for free, and willingly. Some people don't wont pay a service person for a call out to fix their problems if they can get it for free via a forum. People look for help in places like this, but where it all turns to custard is when suggestions made dont work, or no one will answer a question. People ask questions because they dont know, and places like that linked in Erayd link can actually be insulting to some people. dugimodo's post above speaks volumes about how a lot of people feel regarding linux. If you happen to know what you are doing with it - sweet as, but when things can and do go wrong - that can be another story, and that relates to any OS.I have seen the way you help with problems sometimes, you can go into so much detail even a tard would get it. Now that's patience |
plod (107) | ||
| 1264160 | 2012-03-11 23:23:00 | I have seen the way you help with problems sometimes, you can go into so much detail even a tard would get it. Now that's patience thanks Plod -- BUT remember that course I said I went on, that taught how to give instructions to someone who knows nothing about a task they have to do. This is completely off topic, but if any one wants to try, and the more the better to write out a task, you'll see how many different answers you will get. in fact i'll start another thread -- good for a laugh :) pressf1.pcworld.co.nz |
wainuitech (129) | ||
| 1264161 | 2012-03-11 23:40:00 | thanks Plod -- BUT remember that course I said I went on, that taught how to give instructions to someone who knows nothing about a task they have to do. This is completely off topic, but if any one wants to try, and the more the better to write out a task, you'll see how many different answers you will get. in fact i'll start another thread -- good for a laugh :) pressf1.pcworld.co.nz did a similar thing at tech as an apprentice, chose mine on changing a tyre |
plod (107) | ||
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