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Thread ID: 123673	2012-03-10 08:10:00	I converted my mum to Ubuntu Linux	goodiesguy (15316)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1264142	2012-03-11 06:29:00	Well maybe, almost went and got myself a new one today. Only to realise their are due to be upgraded any week now and I don't have any money (or so swmbo reckons) Do not question the mem sahib.	Cicero (40)
1264143	2012-03-11 08:01:00	That can be said of anyone in the service business, regardless of what it is, cars, planes, computers, buses, buildings, roads----- the list is long. Not knocking it, I suckle on that tit too, from time to time. It's easy work and usually repeat business regardless of precautions or advice. :) Theres been several times that I know of that people have had to reinstall their OS because no one can actually fix it, and thats Windows, Linux or MAC's. Time spent and cost effectiveness also comes into the equation when deciding on whether to fix or nuke, if you are on the clock on someone else's money. But as I mentioned before - lets wait and see what happens if Goodies guy can get a working answer if and when he needs help. Only time will tell,and by that I mean not how do you do a certain task, but how do you fix something when it breaks.I'm interested too. There has been a fair amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth from Ubuntuland recently, along with the fairly reliable outpouring of grief every 6 months. :devil Eg: read post #13 -- Why not ask for help ??+1	fred_fish (15241)
1264144	2012-03-11 08:59:00	Good that she likes it, but wait till something goes wrong ;) Sometimes trying to get help with a linux problem is impossible. You would have more luck winning lotto. I find it strange you saying that because there is so much help out there on the net. Things generally only go wrong when you fiddle where you shouldn't or let Windows any where near it.	mikebartnz (21)
1264145	2012-03-11 09:09:00	Getting actual support for windows is a lot easier and actually getting an answer to a question is more likely than Linux. Example, there have been several times here, myself included asked questions about a Linux problem, and either no one can help, or like on several other Linux forums you get absolute useless answers like "thats easy to fix" but no actual fix is suggested. A few years back, I had a problem, and even after doing extensive searching on various linux forums, I found many others were having the same problem,even after 5 months NO ONE could actually give a reply and instructions on how to fix it. About the only good suggestion was to reinstall the OS from scratch. Some linux users here, gloat how good it is, and may have the knowledge to fix their own problems, but when someone asks for help they disappear and dont offer any help what so ever. In other words its all good when its going Ok, but wait till something goes wrong - its all to hard. Mark my words -- When goodies guy has a serious problem lets see if it can be fixed - ;) Funny -- never seen any one here with a eft-pos machine asking for a fee to help fix problems. Quite frankly that all sounds like the words of a die hard Windows man because it certainly hasn't been my experience and just like this forum you sometimes get people who don't know what they are talking about. A lot depends on the forum and the experience or lack of of the members.	mikebartnz (21)
1264146	2012-03-11 10:48:00	He installed Ubuntu - my guess is 'sooner' rather than later - first attempted upgrade would be my pick.:thumbs:. Getting actual support for windows is a lot easier and actually getting an answer to a question is more likely than Linux. Example, there have been several times here, myself included asked questions about a Linux problem, and either no one can help, or like on several other Linux forums you get absolute useless answers like "thats easy to fix" but no actual fix is suggested.In many cases, such an outcome tends to be somewhat indicative of the quality of the question, or the OP expecting to be spoonfed a solution without any actual effort on their part. This article (www.catb.org) is a pretty good match to how a large majority of the people with really decent Linux skills tend to deal with questions. Useless answers often indicate that the poster thinks you're being lazy and could answer the question for yourself with minimal effort, or that your question needs significant refinement. A few years back, I had a problem, and even after doing extensive searching on various linux forums, I found many others were having the same problem,even after 5 months NO ONE could actually give a reply and instructions on how to fix it. About the only good suggestion was to reinstall the OS from scratch.This usually means that either you were asking in the wrong place (and therefore nobody on that forum had the necessary knowledge to properly answer your question), or that you asked in such a way as to cause the people who could have answered to ignore you. Some linux users here, gloat how good it is, and may have the knowledge to fix their own problems, but when someone asks for help they disappear and dont offer any help what so ever.Depends why they're not answering: They may be very happy with their own setup, but not have the skills to help with the OP's problem, or not feel confident enough. They may believe that the OP isn't asking the right question, or is lazy, or any of several sins listed in the link I gave above. They may simply not be interested in helping. Not everyone on this forum is here to help people; many are here simply for the social interaction with other members, or because they needed help themselves at some stage. Just because someone has posted that they are pleased with their own choice of OS does not automatically mean that they have the skills or inclination to help other users. Mark my words -- When goodies guy has a serious problem lets see if it can be fixed - ;)The very fact that it's Goodiesguy having the problem may in itself be sufficient grounds for ignoring the thread. He irritates quite a few of the members here.	Erayd (23)
1264147	2012-03-11 19:12:00	Just referring to that link Erayd -- its basically saying fix it your self because we cant be stuffed. Now I cant remember the exact wording I used here in PF1, but it went much like this. Note; ==== ( cant remember what the error code was, so I'll just put) ?????????? Got problem with Ubuntu 10.1 when starting, on start up it shows a error ???????????. I've looked on several other linux support sites and several people have the same problem, but no one can answer it ? Cant be any more precise than that - Its stated the error code, when it was happening AND the fact others were having problems and I had looked. A help forum is of no use what so ever if the people asking for help are expected to be an expert already.	wainuitech (129)
1264148	2012-03-11 19:26:00	Objectivity goes out of the window when Linux enters the room.	Cicero (40)
1264149	2012-03-11 20:08:00	Quite frankly that all sounds like the words of a die hard Windows man because it certainly hasn't been my experience and just like this forum you sometimes get people who don't know what they are talking about. A lot depends on the forum and the experience or lack of of the members. Thats not all either, a lot of people dont know how to actually give a working answer. Many forget the people they are trying to help dont know, so if the answer leaves out a step, or doesn't give exact steps, sometimes it can cause more problems than solve, even though the answer is in fact the right one. Years ago in a course I did, we had to write out some instructions on doing some tasks - at first it looked really easy, but wasn't till the tasks were written out and someone had to do the task following only the instructions given, then we saw it was in fact quite difficult. I reckon if the tasks/instructions were written out here, it would be a good laugh as not to many people would get it right first time :)	wainuitech (129)
1264150	2012-03-11 21:00:00	Just referring to that link Erayd -- its basically saying fix it your self because we cant be stuffed.Clearly you didn't read it properly, because it doesn't say that at all, and it's certainly not what the author of that document is trying to communicate. If you genuinely did read it, can you please quote whichever section it was that gave you this impression? Now I cant remember the exact wording I used here in PF1, but it went much like this...This (pressf1.pcworld.co.nz) is the only help thread you have started with 'Ubuntu' in the subject, although it seems to be about something else entirely. Is that the one you're referring to? Widening the search terms turns up a handful of other threads, but none of them match your description. Are you sure you posted the thread here? Cant be any more precise than that - Its stated the error code, when it was happening AND the fact others were having problems and I had looked.Still not very much information there though - you're forcing people to pull details from you - but you're right, there's enough info there for people to start asking you more questions about the problem. A help forum is of no use what so ever if the people asking for help are expected to be an expert already.Depends on the forum (e.g. one geared towards Linux kernel development is almost certainly the wrong place to be asking if you're having problems booting your PC). Assuming you're actually asking in the right place, and as long as it's clear you're not expecting to be spoonfed, good help usually pretty easy to find, and won't assume you're already an expert (although most will assume you have read the relevant documentation). Thats not all either, a lot of people dont know how to actually give a working answer. Many forget the people they are trying to help dont know, so if the answer leaves out a step, or doesn't give exact steps, sometimes it can cause more problems than solve, even though the answer is in fact the right one. Years ago in a course I did, we had to write out some instructions on doing some tasks - at first it looked really easy, but wasn't till the tasks were written out and someone had to do the task following only the instructions given, then we saw it was in fact quite difficult. I reckon if the tasks/instructions were written out here, it would be a good laugh as not to many people would get it right first time :)If you're expecting detailed step-by-step instructions tailored to your particular problem that will allow you to solve it without effort or learning, then that's probably why you're having trouble getting assistance. Those kind of expectations almost always indicate that the OP fits most of the following: They are lazy. They lack either the skills or motivation to properly research things they don't understand. They usually haven't read the documentation. They are either unwilling or unable to think logically about the problem. Those kinds of people are generally time-sinks, and in most cases helping them is utterly unrewarding and doesn't actually achieve anything other than making their particular current problem go away. If that doesn't make sense to you, I strongly recommend you read the link I posted again, as it goes into considerable detail on these points.	Erayd (23)
1264151	2012-03-11 21:23:00	I still know more about Windows than Linux but I have been using Ubuntu and variants and other distributions since Ubuntu 5.10 which I believe is 2005 So far most of my problems have been driver related (and probably half of those to do with ATi video cards) but overall it's not too bad. Certainly if you don't know anything about it, not using it isn't going to help. Best thing is to dive in head first and see what happens. The more that goes wrong the more you are likely to learn. Sure the forums are sometimes useless but if you do get a really bad problem that you just can't figure out then I don't see what's wrong with a reinstall - especially if you 'experiment' first, even it makes it worse (hey, you were going to reinstall anyway!)	Agent_24 (57)
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