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Thread ID: 123888	2012-03-22 21:41:00	Maori claims to NZ shot to pieces?	Zippity (58)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1266427	2012-03-23 03:51:00	There seems to be a lot of evidence that the Maori were not the first people in New Zealand. The Maori (not sure about the Moriori may have been the first to settle here in numbers. ... really :( "By the late 20th century the hypothesis that the Moriori were different from the Māori had fallen out of favour amongst archeologists, who believed that the Moriori were Maori who settled on the Chatham Islands in the 16th century. The earlier hypothesis was discredited in the 1960s and 1970s" en.wikipedia.org I think you'll find no substantiated/peer reviewed evidence for pre-maori settlements . Alot of speculation by those with an agenda maybe ?? A stone wall is proof of nothing : that was some of the 'evidence' from a while back.	1101 (13337)
1266428	2012-03-23 07:47:00	I have requested Nelson library to get a copy of that book in the link, I hope they will as I would like to read it and see if I agree or not with the authors	gary67 (56)
1266429	2012-03-23 08:17:00	The Morioris got killed and troughed. They got chased over to the Chatham's with a whole bunch being eaten along the way. I was led to believe that the last Moriori outlived the last Maori.	mikebartnz (21)
1266430	2012-03-23 09:06:00	I find this stuff interesting, but in terms of land claims it doesn't matter who visited first it only matters who was living here when the europeans arrived. Any prior claim has long since expired. No land anywhere in the world to my knowledge is currently occupied primarily by it's original people, in fact in many parts of the world I doubt anyone knows who was there first. What everyone seems to forget about history is that more of it is lost than will ever be known, we can find clues and evidence here and there but in the end we will never know more than a fraction of what happened before anyone started recording stuff. Even during recorded history most knowledge is lost, what was your great great grandfather doing on his 18th birthday? if you can't answer that how can you hope to know anything more than a broad outline about the thousands of years that came before that? Add to that there are a lot of people in the world who feel like regular scientists spend all their time finding ways to hide the truth about everything and are certain that they know better regardless of how well they understand the topic or how good the evidence. We as human beings are often blind to our own limitations and lack of understanding. I read A website a few years back about how Vikings came here first and how it would soon all be proved when the truth came out (supposedly some prince or someone was exiled here, google it if you like it's still around). More than a decade later I'm still waiting for the proof. It seems likely to me that in all the years of seafaring this land has been visited many times, but whover came here either they packed up and left or they died out and so history has forgotten them and they've become largely irrelevant. There are a few mysteries, but hardly any definitive prove that I've seen. One intrigueing thing was the claim that there are rat skeletons below they sediment layer from the Taupo eruptions which predate any known human occupation. It is widely accepted that rats are not native to NZ and were carried here by ships. Most of the other evidence I've seen could be put down to wishful thinking.	dugimodo (138)
1266431	2012-03-23 09:35:00	I found this interesting but the “Embargo” until 2063 has me scratching my head. HERE (www.celticnz.co.nz) “The information derived was considered so sensitive that it was then labelled "restricted" and not to be viewed by the general public until the year 2063.” :confused:	B.M. (505)
1266432	2012-03-23 09:38:00	In terms of land claims it doesn't matter who visited first it only matters who was living here when the europeans arrived. Any prior claim has long since expired. No land anywhere in the world to my knowledge is currently occupied primarily by it's original people, in fact in many parts of the world I doubt anyone knows who was there first. x2 I do feel though that we can't ignore some documented evidence of prior residence of other peoples. I've posted this three times before; Let's look at the history of Ngapuhi. In the book Ancient Celtic NZ by Martin Doutre, he gives a compelling account of some unsettling events in NZ history. In the early 1800's settlers in the Dargaville / Waipoua areas came across in excess of 10,000 skeletons in caves or trees. In each case, the skulls were almost ritually bashed in on the same side. The Governor of the day being cognisant of the issues, needed to ensure the remains were disposed of appropriately, and asked local iwi what their instructions were. They replied it was not of their (Ngapuhi) concern, as the remains were "not of us". Being a pragmatist, the Governor decided that as no-one wished to lay claim to the remains, they would be shipped by barge to Onehunga there to be crushed into bonedust. Each skull was counted, and this data recorded in the New Zealand Gazette, the Diary of the Nation. Subsequently, some surviving remains were carbon dated during last century. The results of the carbon dating were embargoed until I think around 2070. I'm not sure of the date, but it is important to recognise the date was fixed so that the results would not impact on any person living at the time of the carbon dating. Between the lines, the date of the genocide would possibly be fixed not much before the Treaty of Waitangi. 10,000 murders in this day and age would be thought of as genocide, and would have resulted in exhaustive inquiries and international court actions. The Governor of the day perhaps wisely chose to overlook the ramifications and as Metla rightly pointed out,and Dugimodo later, the Treaty was between Maori and Pakeha at that time. End of story. But I think Maori should choose to adopt a low profile lest other atrocities committed by them become more widely known. E.g. the herding of around 1,000 men women and children into the sea south of Orere Point, covering them with nets and tying the nets down until the sea came in and did its thing. :(	WalOne (4202)
1266433	2012-03-23 09:50:00	I found this interesting but the “Embargo” until 2063 has me scratching my head. HERE (www.celticnz.co.nz) “The information derived was considered so sensitive that it was then labelled "restricted" and not to be viewed by the general public until the year 2063.” :confused: What is the source of the statement about the restriction on the "sensitive" information?	martynz (5445)
1266434	2012-03-23 10:04:00	One, the New Zealand Gazette. In case you don't know, it's not a blog, it's the official Government Diary of the Nation. Then, as it is centuries later. Two, an image of the embargo is published in Doutre's book as evidence. I'd include it here, but I lent my copy to a friend, and as is often the case, I haven't got it back.	WalOne (4202)
1266435	2012-03-23 11:56:00	They got chased over to the Chatham's with a whole bunch being eaten along the way. I was led to believe that the last Moriori outlived the last Maori.Last bit is true I think. His name was Tommy Solomon I think. The first bit was what was believed once, but through DNA it is now believed the Moriori are a seperate people (with the same Polynesian ancestry as Maori) who arrived by canoe on the Chathams and Pitt Island before the Maori arrived in New Zealand. Interestingly enough, Moriori hold that that there were people on the islands before the canoe voyagers arrived. Stupidly, our silly Govt at one time has named them the indigenous people of the Chathams.	Iantech (16386)
1266436	2012-03-23 19:18:00	I found this interesting but the “Embargo” until 2063 has me scratching my head. HERE (www.celticnz.co.nz) “The information derived was considered so sensitive that it was then labelled "restricted" and not to be viewed by the general public until the year 2063.” :confused: Embargo because some yank nutcase ie a foreigner, not born here, says so Yeah right, if you believe that you probaly believe in fairies. Like its a pile of rocks, the moaris did the same on the Manukau harbor near the airport for gardens. Christ there could be an embargo on that information that the rock walls were for delineating the kumara plots. Really sorry I broke the embargo, so ******* sorry.	prefect (6291)
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