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Thread ID: 15568	2002-02-10 07:58:00	Quick survey of the young ones.	Guest (0)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
35196	2002-02-10 20:47:00	Hi John, well you certainly seem to have hit a raw nerve with some people. I am 60+ and came into computing late in life largely due to financial restraints and have only managed to my reach current level of understanding (which is fairly basic) courtesy of my youngest son. He has not only taught me a lot, some of which I have retained, but has also built me my current computer, a machine I would not have been able to afford if I bought it of the shelf. I agree entirely with your comments and those of most that have had input into this post, but like you don't know the answer. Just have to accept it I expect and bite the tongue. Regards PP	Guest (0)
35197	2002-02-10 22:04:00	But when did they last teach grammar and punctuation in high-school? I think the whole HS english system is a farce. It doesn't teach English, it teaches reading and literature... I think half of today's youth can understand Shakespeare better than we can understand them.	Guest (0)
35198	2002-02-11 00:10:00	I post every now and then to this forum, you'd probably call me 'youth of today', and i'd like to say this: if you can read what i've typed and understand, who cares if i've put a capital or full stop in the right place. so long as when i type a string of code, product name or web address, i type it as it should be typed then i can't see what the problem is. these posts are NOT a formal document to hand in to the boss outlining a five year plan and so you shouldn't expect a 100% grammatically correct post. although i must admit when people can't take the time to try and help you understand their problem it is irritating, but then this is the curse of all helpdesk people! Regards, Mark The Software Tester.	Guest (0)
35199	2002-02-11 01:37:00	Hi Mark Your objection is the one that I hear most from reasonable people: If you can make yourself understood then why worry about the details? First, let me say that I never asked for '100%'. Almost every post (including my own) has a few typos or spelling mistakes. Let me make a few observations about your own post (which is not so bad): Firstly, you divided it up into several paragraphs. Why was that? Also, you have the apostrophes in words such as 'shoudn't' and 'can't', so I guess you know where the shift key is. Still - why bother if speed is the goal? If you get in the habit of capitalising your sentences, it requires no effort at all. I certainly don't think about it while I type. Someone else asked what my problem was. It is simply this: It is inconsiderate and impolite to write text that is easy for you to type and hard for me to read. Is your time more valuable than mine? If I make mistakes in my 'report to the boss', I waste a little bit of one person's time (for which, by the way, he is being paid). If I can't be bothered putting the least bit of punctuation in a post to a help forum, I waste the time of dozens of volunteers, as their eyes strain to find the correct sense and flow of the sentence. I take exception to that.	Guest (0)
35200	2002-02-11 01:54:00	Mark, here's why: i find it very difficult to read what people are writing when they write like this without puncuation or sentence breaks or capitals or any other correct grammar so although i can understand it eventually and i can read it it is very hard to read and understand the first time through and sometimes you cant figure out where one sentence should end and another one should start if someone is wanting help with a problem then they should make it simple enough for the people who are giving up their valuable time to help to be able to read it quickly and clearly otherwise what is the point in our volunteering to help people out i have a lot of other things i could be doing instead but i appreciate people helping me when im stuck so i like to help others when theyre stuck but if they cant make it readable and understandable then why should i bother Is that clear enough for you, Mark?	Guest (0)
35201	2002-02-11 08:12:00	My guess again after some observation of teens would be that 'image' may be one of the primary drivers. Does anybody remember when it actually didn't matter what kind of shoes or clothes you wore? When you were judged by the strength of your character, who you were, not what you looked like? It seems to me that our Kiwi teens have been ambushed by American Street Culture. Watch a few music videos, observe the clothing styles, the attitudes and behaviour, so much similarity to Kiwi teens. Seems a bit sad to me that our teens are unable to create their own culture... But back to image and its impact on grammar and writing. Nowadays its more important how you look on the journey than where you are going. Better to look 'cool' and come last! Great attitude to have and works fine until mum and dad stop paying the bills and you enter the real world. Complex issue you've opened up, good luck deciphering!	Guest (0)
35202	2002-02-11 08:13:00	John I am 29 years old and I was in the DUMB class at school. My spelling and grammar are not very good to be honest they are extremely poor and in all my school days had people making fun of me because of it. I am very self-conscious of my hand writing and spelling because it is so poor. Now as you imply in your posts if your grammar and the like is poor you are crippled And shouldn?t posting in this forum and if you do then you wont get a response. If that?s how you fell then I?m rather sad that we live in a world where people will not accept people for who they are and there short comings. I think tolerance is the key there. Now as my literacy is rather poor am I stupid or lazy HELL NO. I can and have built PC?s, fixed PC?s, done my own web page and helped out friends and family with their PC?s. Even shown people how to use the thing?s who have got a higher IQ and literacy than me. Now I am a mechanic. I do small motors for a living and I see all the time, people coming in who are literate to the eyeballs yet fail to grasp that you need to put petrol in the lawnmower for it to go or if you don?t put oil in it, it will stop. Now are they stupid or lazy. I think not they just don?t grasp mechanical things (which is rather common). I fell that this can also be applied to literacy amongst a lot of other things. Also for this lol and the like. I?m a keen gamer and when playing games online most of the time you don?t have much time to chat so when you do want to say something if you type it out properly then you will never get it done as you don?t have much time and a second or two makes a big difference. I think if you do it allot it becomes habit forming and can be a hard habit to break. Well that?s my $1.50 worth PS. I used Microsoft word to do this post as I normally do, because of my shortcomings in the literary field. I don?t like to look like an idiot because I cannot spell and have people like your self judging me for it. Ticked off post reader.	Guest (0)
35203	2002-02-11 08:48:00	Ticked Off - very nicely put! People like the originator of this post tick me off too, because they are too high on their own principles, and expect everyone else to live according to their standards. And heaven help those that fall short! I really should have ignored this subject from it's out-set, but unfortunately it's close to my heart - I love language, and have studied English linguistics and teaching (albeit at under-graduate level) for nearly two years, and have an empathy for correct English. However, what get's up my nose are self-righteous individuals proclaiming their own supposed superiority to a captive audience, entirely disregarding the wants, needs and limitations of other people that are experiencing and enduring, real life. If the originator of this post was big enough he'd have stood above his dislike of illiterate 'youth', given up his sermon, and ignored their postings as he said previously. And I'd bet he infinitesimally edits his own postings so as not to make any errors, possibly using a word processor prior to submitting them! It's a shame that a public forum such as this should be a vent for someone's own inadequacies. I apologise in advance for my contributing to this sad, self-defeating debate.	Guest (0)
35204	2002-02-11 10:08:00	To Ticked Off... I think you've misunderstood the original post. John wasn't having a go at people who have difficulty with spelling and grammar - he was more trying to find out why a lot of people make it very difficult to read their posts. It is obvious to me that you don't intend to make it difficult to read, and as such we are easily able to read your post. But when people CHOOSE to leave out punctuation and intend to misspell words, it just makes it incredibly hard to read the posts, and that is what really ticks us off. I was not in the dumb class at school - I scored in the high 800s for my English SAT (which, for those who don't know the US system, is apparently quite high), but I can understand that some people struggle in this area, yet they do their best to make themselves understood, and I think we all, including John, appreciate that. But I AM sick and tired of people who just don't make an effort... or rather, those who make an effort NOT to be understood. I think John was just trying to find out why they did this. Mike.	Guest (0)
35205	2002-02-11 10:17:00	Yeah, Mike's got it about right. 'Ticked off', your post is fine. Thanks for caring enough to run it through Word. That's really all I ask. Cheers John.	Guest (0)
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