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Thread ID: 124282 2012-04-16 11:54:00 Performance Based Pay Twelvevolts (5457) PC World Chat
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1270413 2012-04-16 11:54:00 This (www.nzherald.co.nz)article on Teachers and the huge number of comments made afterwards, got me thinking about why people think performance based pay would help the situation.

I've never worked anywhere that didn't supposedly have performance based pay - and yet I've never yet seen a system working that actually rewarded people on objective performance. Most systems are pretty loose and basically rely on what the boss thinks of you rather than any science as such.

If I actually used a performance management system properly with my team, I'd have to use three full days a month just to meet with them once (assuming I did nothing else).

In teaching - there are few full time managers so who would be doing this performance management and at what extra cost - this never seems to get raised by the performance management proponents.

Truth is most teachers do a good job which can't be said for quite as many parents.

Unless there was significant additional investment in schools. performance based pay for teachers is a pipe dream.
Twelvevolts (5457)
1270414 2012-04-16 21:23:00 Some of the stuff is built into job descriptions. They might be a bit cunning that they have a section that says you would be willing to accept work that is deemed "appropriate" that is not contained specifically in the JD. Some of the measures are also what your job is on time, quality work etc so it can be for a full calendar year .. but yeah that is subjective. Like it may be based on computerised actions or reports and that's your day to day job for the 12 months. They can also base it on how you relate to other people and other units of the org. At the end of the day there is only one person who evaluates that and that person may not may not get on with you. They can also be used to get rid of a person legally. Nomad (952)
1270415 2012-04-16 21:26:00 I think talking about it will make a difference. Cicero (40)
1270416 2012-04-16 21:27:00 The problem with teachers pay is their unions insistence the all teachers are paid the same regardless of ability, work ethic or anything else up to and including criminal conviction. The unions even protect proven child molesters on occasion.

Any system that pays everyone exactly the same regardless of effort and/or ability destroys the incentive to work hard and instead tends to drag all down to the minimum possible particularly when it is very difficult to get rid of the useless.

I would support very good pay for very good teachers I do not believe they are hard to identify nor do I believe that one would have to invent a whole new department to do it.
CliveM (6007)
1270417 2012-04-16 21:27:00 I worked on performance based pay for 10 years. If I fixed skirting I received X amount per m run, If I was putting down flooring I received X amount per square m and so on. It worked very well back then in the 90's in England I could earn top wages, go home at 3pm everyday and only work half day Friday gary67 (56)
1270418 2012-04-16 21:31:00 A lot depends on the measures chosen. People may in their own interests just target those. But then again some places the measures while may be specific other measures can also be quite broad - like you get on with other people/units, able to take constructive feedback, you have a willingness to learn, you have done various things for ongoing development, you have good work ethic ... Down your boss then I guess ..

I can see that it may work better in production facilities like Gary mentioned. Or if the manager involved has investment ability so they can choose which can provide a larger payoff. But for many job ....

But instead of Gary saying go home at 3pm, well one could argue that if you were so efficient you might still be paid for certain hours so instead of going home at 3pm you can do other stuff to better improve the organisation :D You free up to the time and do other value added activities with that.
Nomad (952)
1270419 2012-04-16 21:39:00 I've had teachers who were worth every cent, and others who were quite blatantly just filling in the hours in order to get the pay, who didn't give a damn about imparting any knowledge at all.

It's a minefield if teachers are given performance based pay. There'd be a fair argument that all teachers should then get an equal share of the dumbass kids and the uncontrolable kids, rather than clumping these kids together with one teacher (who would then get lousy pay as the students are never going to perform well).

However, homogenising the student classes would disadvantage the brighter kids who would then have to put up with lousier classmates.
It's debatable whether the better class environment would assist the poor student, or further demoralise them as they'd be more dramatically behind their fellow classmates.

Best thing that ever happened to me was getting into streamed classes without the dumbass portion to slow things down. But it does mean some other poor students got lomped with a higher proportion of poor students as a result, and so did their teacher.
Paul.Cov (425)
1270420 2012-04-16 21:41:00 A lot depends on the measures chosen. People may in their own interests just target those. But then again some places the measures while may be specific other measures can also be quite broad - like you get on with other people/units, able to take constructive feedback, you have a willingness to learn, you have done various things for ongoing development, you have good work ethic ... Down your boss then I guess ..

I can see that it may work better in production facilities like Gary mentioned. Or if the manager involved has investment ability so they can choose which can provide a larger payoff. But for many job ....

But instead of Gary saying go home at 3pm, well one could argue that if you were so efficient you might still be paid for certain hours so instead of going home at 3pm you can do other stuff to better improve the organisation :D You free up to the time and do other value added activities with that.

I was self employed though and working on a contract so as long as I got the work done no one cared, and the quicker I did it the more I could earn, sports stars should be on performance pay.

Take cricket for example bowlers should get a bonus for each wicket and batsmen for each run etc
gary67 (56)
1270421 2012-04-16 23:25:00 Truth is most teachers do a good job which can't be said for quite as many parents.

Well said!
Chilling_Silence (9)
1270422 2012-04-17 01:48:00 Perhaps the evidence that teachers do such a good job is that 20 % of their student end up illiterate. Cicero (40)
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