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| Thread ID: 124716 | 2012-05-15 00:20:00 | No Jobs, or no tradespeople? | mzee (3324) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 1275472 | 2012-05-16 07:34:00 | I don't entirely agree, University is an integral part of the education system, and its job is to turn out graduates, not all of whom end up productive members of society unfortunately, but the same can be said for any level of education . Our education system is also turning out a wide range of professionals (not all of whom need a University degree to be professional in their occupation) plus tradespeople and whole pile of other employment classifications much needed by our society . You may not think about them right now, but you'd sure miss them if they all vanished overnight . All the education system needs to do is to focus on teaching kids how to learn, because what they learn is relatively unimportant beyond the 3 R's, and once they know the basics they'll keep on learning for the rest of their lives . Nothing I do today is related in any way to my schooling, in fact I only use two of the R's, I never did get the hang of the third one, but technology sorted that for me . I get into a lot of workplaces and I meet some incredibly smart people of all ages, but not too many have a tertiary education . Sure there's a need to improve educational outcomes, but a heck of a lot of the responsibility for that lies with the parents, not the kids . They will only ever be as good as the nurturing and caring they get, the discipline they learn, and above all, the examples they are set . First and foremost, kids are the product of their parenting and by the time they get to school they are very definitely aligned down their future path . Mrs T works in a Child Care Centre, and the number of undisciplined, kicking, biting, disrespectful and downright nasty kids that arrive at ages as young as two or three is mind boggling . Three weeks of normal discipline, consequences for actions, no means no, time out, and loss of privilege turns them around, every single one of them, and their parents can't understand how it was achieved . These are the kids of professional and semi-professional adults for heavens sakes, not some under privileged kids from no-mans land, south of wherever . If they are that buggered up by their parenting at preschool age, when their minds are still pretty much a blank canvas, what chance do they ever have of becoming a useful member of society? If kids are taught nothing more than values and consequences, everything else will fall into line, even if it takes them 20 years to get there . Our kids were born with a plastic spoon in their mouth, not silver, but good guidance, no means no, and a solid supportive education produced a first Class Honours Degree for a boy who didn't learn how to write 'academic english' until his last year at Uni, and his rather more diligent sister on the way to completing her Masters . As parents we can only claim credit for the direction, not the outcomes, but without direction we could just as easily had one in Mt eden and another on the streets of South Auckland . Intelligence and money have nothing to do with it, the streets are littered with intelligent bums who had every opportunity that money could buy, but none of the parenting, the leadership and examples that money can't . Billy That's the most objective and realistic assessment I've heard in ages Billy T . You've saved me writing something similar! :thumbs: |
tuiruru (12277) | ||
| 1275473 | 2012-05-16 08:25:00 | First and foremost, kids are the product of their parenting and by the time they get to school they are very definitely aligned down their future path. Mrs T works in a Child Care Centre, and the number of undisciplined, kicking, biting, disrespectful and downright nasty kids that arrive at ages as young as two or three is mind boggling. Three weeks of normal discipline, consequences for actions, no means no, time out, and loss of privilege turns them around, every single one of them, and their parents can't understand how it was achieved. These are the kids of professional and semi-professional adults for heavens sakes, not some under privileged kids from no-mans land, south of wherever. Billy A very good post. Years ago I did some work for a couple with three kids. She was a psychologist but if one of the kids got something all three got something even when they had a birthday. One got a kitten so all three got one and I often had to clean up after them before I could start work. I always thought psychologists needed themselves more than anyone else. |
mikebartnz (21) | ||
| 1275474 | 2012-05-16 08:28:00 | I agree with Billy T. If you know how to learn, you can educate yourself, so much easier with the Internet. I have 3 sons who have all turned out well, with good values. They are kind and honest. They had a stable family home, standard school education, but are self taught in trades which they are very good at. I am 78 and still learning! | mzee (3324) | ||
| 1275475 | 2012-05-16 08:40:00 | I too agree with Billy T. Well said! I like your reasoned reply. :) | R.M. (561) | ||
| 1275476 | 2012-05-16 12:04:00 | meh . Is it worth doing an apprenticeship? . . . . None of the painters I know get paid very well, and no matter what their background they all ride to the site in the same van, do the same work, and take home similar coin . Well then I say their are doing the wrong jobs or not good at what their do . One mate that is still painting works for himself, earns more then me and has a witing list of clients |
plod (107) | ||
| 1275477 | 2012-05-16 21:11:00 | Well how about this then? Friend of mine has 2 boys . One was a nasty, lazy, rude psycho little %#@^^ from a young age . He still is . Has no job, blames her for everything, constantly in trouble in various ways, legally, financially and so on . The other is lovely . Polite, hard working . Always was . Same parents, same environment . Some kids just are . . . . you can make the effort but ultimately they make their own decisions . |
pctek (84) | ||
| 1275478 | 2012-05-16 21:24:00 | I don't know what schools teach these days. But everyone is asking for them to teach more stuff, so where is the time to do it all ? Much practical stuff was taught by fathers to their sons, but this is not the case so much now as there are so many solo mum families. Is it a schools job to teach how to change a tyre ? More on basic life skills eg financials, buying a car on hp, basic laws and morals would be good. I met a girl from Malaysia who could not believe the short hours our students are at school for. No wonder we are falling behind. Asian people value education. |
Digby (677) | ||
| 1275479 | 2012-05-16 21:44:00 | I don't know what schools teach these days. But everyone is asking for them to teach more stuff, so where is the time to do it all ? Much practical stuff was taught by fathers to their sons, but this is not the case so much now as there are so many solo mum families. Is it a schools job to teach how to change a tyre ? More on basic life skills eg financials, buying a car on hp, basic laws and morals would be good. I met a girl from Malaysia who could not believe the short hours our students are at school for. No wonder we are falling behind. Asian people value education. I've been in this country for 22 years, and in that time it seems to me that, as far as education is concerned, NZ has (blindly) gone where the UK has gone before, even when, given a sufficient number of years, the UK has shown it doesn't work!! Here's the latest bit of LUNACY!! : www.nzherald.co.nz Was watching the news on Channel 3 (6:05pm) Last night. Apparently, according to the current government, NZ has too many teachers! WHAT??!! In my book that's a contradiction in terms!! |
tuiruru (12277) | ||
| 1275480 | 2012-05-16 22:48:00 | Well then I say their are doing the wrong jobs or not good at what their do. One mate that is still painting works for himself, earns more then me and has a waiting list of clients That's taking it a bit out of context, there is a difference between being self-employed and being in paid employment. I'd also have no idea if you earn good money or not. I'd imagine the average skilled painter (and seriously, if you can't be a good painter then there in't many options left) would be doing some huge hours to crack 60k? |
Metla (12) | ||
| 1275481 | 2012-05-16 23:04:00 | That's taking it a bit out of context, there is a difference between being self-employed and being in paid employment. I'd also have no idea if you earn good money or not. I'd imagine the average skilled painter (and seriously, if you can't be a good painter then there in't many options left) would be doing some huge hours to crack 60k? Hang on Metla - there's no way I could be a skilled painter.... I find the whole rubbing down process (not a sexual reference! :)) totally tedious and mind numbing, and as for cutting in and making sure the paint goes in the right place on the "fiddly" bits...... I just zone out. I appreciate that there are other people who find it a breeze and actually get satisfaction from the process, so I'm quite happy to pay them to do it for me (but I agree with you about the 60K). I've got other skills and talents and ........I've forgotten where I was going with this |
tuiruru (12277) | ||
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